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Hope this works -- here's the AK pistol I was referring to

offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
edited December 2001 in General Discussion
Picture appears above, if all has gone well....
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Comments

  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's a nice little piece. Where does a guy get one of those? Urban Armory?
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    That is not a pistol. Can you imagine firing that thing with one hand?It is, as best I can tell from first look, an AKSU-74. Great little gun, given to tankers and chopper crews usually.It is also used by Russian paramilitary groups though for when they need a compact gun with a rifle cartridge.
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  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GL I found one here on gb---2731918
    when all else fails........................
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye --I think you have it. As I said, there seems to be 2 calibers available for this weapon. The AKS-74U is in caliber 5.45x39.5. The AKS-74S is 7.62x39.It is available with a shoulder stock that looks like a folder, or without. Issue 35 of Shotgun News (page 125) shows one of these available from K-VAR as a parts set, in both calibers. There's even a parts set with a .223 Trunnion Block, whatever that signifies. Question is, is that an AK receiver (because these parts sets are from de-milled guns)? Obviously I'm not currently discussing the legal ramifications of owning one of these. Just the feasibility of getting one in working order. Also, the Gunbroker auction item is obviously manufactured with a 75-round drum magazine in 7.62. The one that bin Laden appears to carry uses the banana 30-round stick mags.P.S. I call it a pistol but have no illusions. Here's another shot:
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Also see GB auction 2756191, which has been re-listed many times, maybe because of the reserve? People tend to choke around $1,025. (The parts kits range from $250 to $400 without receiver & trunnion).
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You folks should know one thing about me -- I have a weakness for compacts, whether we're talking a Garand Tanker, a CAR 15, a Glock 27 -- or a Krinkov in 7.62. Some guys like Barretts, Desert Eagles and Casulls. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. Not in ammo, mind you, in gun size. Big calibers, smaller guns.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I cant possibly imagine why someone would want to put a drum mag on a compact assault carbine. The thing is short and compact for a reason, and it aint heavy suppression fire, which is the only reason you'd need or want a big old drum mag.Note: In most of the footage of Osama holding his AK, it is always a folding-stock version, and in every video except for the one where he is actually shooting, he has a 40-round AK mag in the rifle as opposed to the traditional 30-rounder.How can I tell you ask? The 40 round mags are always orange in color for some reason. That's other than the obvious increase in length over the 30 rounder.Here's a 40 rounder on an RPK light machine gun:
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullz --You're right. I'm sure the 75-round drum was welded onto the gun by the re-manufacturer for the express purpose of getting it legal in his state while offering the most rounds possible in one load. Whether this was a good idea or not depends upon whether they sell, I suppose. This gun is illustrated as well on Urban Armory with the drum mag, at a price around $1,050. You are right about the brown/orange mag. I found another pic of the very gun in full auto form on Urban Armory, as follows:
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    One more detail -- Look for the Krinkov NOT in the film of UBL shooting -- that is an AK folder -- but sitting next to him in the videotapes of him giving those propaganda speeches. You can just see the muzzle of this thing resting against the rock next to him. I can't tell if it's a 30 or 40 round stick. Apparently that muzzle attachment is not a suppressor, but on the contrary provides about 3 feet of flame when the thing is fired. Intimidation?
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I cant imagine why UBL would want a supressor anyway. What good would it do him?Maybe he welded it onto the end just so it'd look ferocious. Strange indeed.I'm suprised he doesn't have a grenade launching attachment on there somewhere. Didn't they make a 7.62x39 Russian blank for grenade launching?
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Professional Ordnance will be offering their Carbon-15 pistol in 7.62X39 very soon. Because the weight is less than 50 oz, it will legally take detatchable mags. It will also be much easier to hold and sight, and probably cost much less.For that matter, a Carbon-15 in .223 with the 100 round Beta C-mag is a better rig than an AK pistol with a welded on drum.[This message has been edited by boeboe (edited 12-28-2001).]
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Again, why the hell would you want a huge drum mag on a compact carbine?Why the hell would you want a drum mag anyway? The cool factor doesnt justify the price or unnecessary weight to me. Please enlighten me as to why people like them.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye, with all due respect given to accuracy, sometimes some of us feel going bangbangbang over and over and over again is just lots of fun.
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  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya know my fingers get sore loading clips all the time.
    when all else fails........................
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Hey, like my granddaddy used to say, whatever peaks yer britches.
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    boeboe, whats with the pistol having to be less than 50 oz? New regulation I haven't heard about?
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    GreenLantern, Part of the '94 ban was directed towards "assault pistols". They were attacking firearms such as the Universal or Iver Johnson M1 Carbine "Enforcer" and the AR15 pistols. If a pistol weighs more than 50 oz (unloaded) it cannot have a detatchable magazine. You may have noticed they stopped making the pistol version of the M1 Carbine and the AR15 pistol for this reason. Professional Ordnance got around that by using the graphite material to build their Carbon-15 pistol, which takes it down less than the 50 oz limit. That's also why the drum magazine is welded onto the AK pistol shown on top, if it was a detatchable mag, it would be illegal because it weighs over 50 ounces. Because the drum mag is not detatchable, it makes it legal (on the Federal level).Of course, those "pre-ban" assault pistols made before the ban are still legal. But it is illegal to make anymore pistols such as the Enforcer or AR15 that weight over 50 oz and take the detatchable mags.[This message has been edited by boeboe (edited 12-29-2001).]
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not to mention that the drum magazine makes loading possible, whereas if they welded a stick mag onto an AK-type receiver, you'd have to probably modify it to get any rounds into it. The drum has that "trapdoor" thing going for it, so whoever came up with this was obviously trying to create a legal gun on the cheap.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't like the bar that sticks out the back of the Carbon 15, a feature which the OA-93 didn't have. I know some of the Carbon models have a sling swivel on there, which makes more sense, but it would look better and be more useful (and probably more comfortable) with something on the end of that cylinder, a butt pad or a wrist stabilizer or something. I keep wondering how the OA-93 design got along without that extension behind the pistol grip. Trivia: In the same issue of shotgun news one ad has the Carbon 15 selling for $619 unfluted while another ad has it selling for over $1000. Tell me it doesn't pay to shop around...
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wondered why I hadn't seen an M1 Enforcer at a gun show in a while. It's a shame that the only way to get one of these clever new models at a fair price is in this little window of time between the time the gun comes on the market and government adds it to a ban list -- and the dealer equivalent of ticket scalpers start wanting me to pay 3 times its actual value. In the first place, I can afford the gun at $4-600 that I can't afford at $1500 to 4000. I swear if I ever open a gun shop I will NEVER gouge my customers on the tools they hope to afford to properly defend themselves and the country. Not a universally popular view, of course, but I still think Uzis should all cost around $400, like they used to. I can't help wondering how much longer those Carbon 15's will be available for $600-700.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry about the consecutive messages, but it just occurred to me that the 50 oz. limit may have something to do with why I've been seeing Kevlar lower receivers marked "pistol" for ARs lately... I imagine Kevlar and Carbon may make pistols possible again for a period of time. (Long enough for dealers to stock up before the new bans and the price increases...) Let's hope OA makes a few more 93s with the Kevlar before the feds catch on.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    The OA-93 has the recoil system above the bolt, not behind it like the Carbon-15. No doubt the OA would be really nice, but from the prices I've seen out of them, I'll stick with my Carbon-15. The only time the recoil cylinder gets in the way is for carry and storage, shooting it is fine.While I like mine in .223, the 7.62X39 version sounds like lots of fun. I want one.Like you, I wonder how long it will be before they outlaw the Carbon-15. It is an obvious attempt (and a successful attempt) at getting around a law that was intended to ban guns such as that. Funny in a way, that the laws forced a gunmaker to make a gun that was better than the one they outlawed. It is funny watching people pick up the Carbon-15 for the first time. It looks like it should be heavy, but is very light. I'm betting we have a bit of time until they are prohibited as well, perhaps until the next Democrat becomes President. Cross my fingers, enough time to pick up one in 7.62X39.
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  • COWBOYKIDDCOWBOYKIDD Member Posts: 239 ✭
    edited November -1
    It looks bad 2 the bone but for 1000 bucks....NOT no way Id rather spend 700-900 bucks for another legend and make some money
    Politicians Love Gun Control / China Has Gun Control
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree, I'd make a nice conversation piece, but for $1000? I'm not keen on fixed mags even if it's a 75 rd drum.
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,599 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror, OK, call me a dumb *. Hell, if I was an expert, I wouldn't be asking questions on this board! What is meant by "de-milled"? I looked up the ad in S-N. After buying the kit, what is needed to finish the project?
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No way -- I just found out myself. De-milled is a common term in the trade which apparently means rendering the receiver incapable of working. Sometimes it's just cut into two or three pieces. When guns can be used for parts, they're "de-milled" so that the parts are still good but the receiver ain't. Parts kits for a gun are generally supplied without the receiver and therefore no FFL is required to receive a parts kit. I've been trying to find out more about this myself, because if one can buy an Uzi parts kit for $250 or a Krinkov parts kit for up to $400 -- and then find a source for receivers elsewhere -- couldn't one build the gun for a reasonable price and a bit of labor? Trouble is, I'm not much for welding, so I would be hoping to assemble a piece from parts without welding being necessary. Then of course there is the question of whether what one has just built is legal.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll be looking closely at the Carbon 15 at the gun show here next weekend (lucky me!). I wonder if I'll see any of these drum Krinkov things.... Rather have one that takes stick mags, but I'd probably have to mortgage something to get one.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, I like the 4" sight radius- but then again a fire hose doesn't need sights.When someone comes up with an aluminum or titanium receiver and a titanium bolt follower I could get excited. Ballistics out of that short barrel have to be worse than a good pistol cartridge.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A gun like the Carbon 15 or Krinkov with no shoulder stock was probably meant for two-handed point shooting or to be shot from the hip. A round that goes out at 2300 fps from a rifle will probably still do better than nearly all, if not all, handgun rounds even with the short barrel. As for the titanium, that would just send the price out of sight. I'm kind of glad they're proving the usefulness of new lightweight substances that make affordable weaponry for the majority of us citizenry...so to speak. The closer to $600 you can keep any assault weapon, the better it will sell. We've been in a low inflation period for quite a while now, and yet the black rifles seem to keep creeping up. Or should I say continue being upped by creeps?
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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