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Porting is a gimmick

bsebastbsebast Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
edited February 2002 in General Discussion
The following is a reply on another thread concerning ported rifles. It is worth a thread of its own:In my opinion, porting is a gimmick on anything less than a shoulder-fired anti-tank rifle. Hunters got along well for a long time without porting...and fired some pretty hefty calibers doing so. Recall the old 600 nitro express safari rifles? They weren't ported. And a 45-70? Ha! That cartridge has been fired for over 100 years in non-ported rifles. Why is it, all of a sudden, we can't handle the recoil? I am serious. I think gadgets like porting are nothing but gimmicks by gun manufacturers to try to sell more guns. And one last comment: a deer can't tell the difference.
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Comments

  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    he's got a point. I know I was not impressed with a magna port job on one of my rifles, all it did was make it loud and I recorded a 400fps loss after porting a 28" barrel. As we all know large magnums don't burn all of the powder efficantly and when I made swiss cheese out of 3" of barrel I may as well just cut 3" off of it because all it did was take away what I gained in getting a 28" barrel put on.
    when all else fails........................
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  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First , I have no desire to shoot a 45-70 out of a handgun. i have a taurus m44 8 3/8"bbl and a ruger super redhawk 9 1/2"bbl, the taurus is ported, the redhawk is not, redhawk is more enjoyable to shoot. In the rifle I noticed NO decrease in rocoil and my pro chrony tells me I lost velocity, I had the 28"bbl put on to try and gain velocity wich it worked, I then sent it to be magna ported, same kick, more noise and I lost the velocity I had originaly gained. That is my experience and it may differ from others, I'm not sold on porting, even my 835 is different after getting a ported bbl for it, just dont pattern the same for some reason.Don't i feel like an *, the post I was replyng to got deleted as I was typing
    when all else fails........................[This message has been edited by 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king (edited 02-06-2002).]
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The theory of porting is, of course, to create gas jets that help keep the nose down. My guess is that there is a fairly complicated formula for getting optimum value from porting. You can't just drill holes. Drill the holes too big, you don't get a jet effect at all -- you just get a shorter barrel. Drill them too small and their bound not to make much difference. It just makes sense that things like port circumference and differences in power from one load to another will have a direct effect on ports. How could hot loads and light loads perform the same? What does seem clear is that porting a handgun reduces muzzle velocity by an average of 50 fps. My guess is that I would have to try a number of loads and see which load worked best. The only reason I hesitate to say it may well be a gimmick is because it's so popular in competition pistols nowadays. I can hardly believe the benefits are all in their imaginations. There must be some reduction in muzzle flip, with the right ports, the right loads, and the right gun... Right? I'll duck now.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • usmc2498215usmc2498215 Member Posts: 82 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This much is my own experience in firing a ported handgun, or rifle; in low light or darkness type conditions you can kiss your night vision away, and any hope for a quick target acquisition and second shot.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    offerer: Think those little band-aids on the nose really help football players get more air? I don't, because when you're working hard, you don't breathe through your nose. It's a fad. I consider porting the same. I figured a .338 WinMag would kick my butt, but it wasn't bad in the least. I'd be back on target as quick as a .30-.30. Just my uneducated opinion, but if porting helps someone shoot, go for it. We all shoot our own way, don't we?
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I don't think it's an "all of a sudden we can't deal with recoil" situation. We drove vehicles without power steering for years, but it sure is nice to have now. Theres a new break out there that reduces recoil, but does'nt cause the loud "bang" anymore. To each his own.
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  • SXSMANSXSMAN Member Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Timber,I thought the same as you about those breathe right strips,a doctor in Colorado Springs at the olympic training center has done extensive research and claims with proper training you can take in more air through the nose than the mouth.Is the mouth not a larger orifice?A larger venturi?I too find it hard to believe.Porting on hand guns when done PROPERLY works.Rifle doesn't seem to make much difference.Now what about BOSS system?Anybody feel there are noticeable benefits over your hearing loss?
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  • WyomingSwedeWyomingSwede Member Posts: 402 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Porting may be considered a gimmick...but obviously there must be a market for it. It is on the guide gun and I for one like it. I am for anything that reduces recoil or allows you to get back on target faster. Muzzle breaks, BOSS etc. I had my 300 win mag braked and it is a helluva lot easier to go put 40 rounds through than previously. By the way, Mossberg ports its 835 shotguns ... any one have experience with that. Swede
    WyomingSwede
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  • bsebastbsebast Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Swede-- What in the world are you shooting at...putting 40 rounds through a 300 win mag. Heavens! I have not put 40 rounds through my hunting rifle in the past 5 years.And, for the life of me, I can't figure how porting will help a guide gun get back on target faster. You have to cycle the lever action between shots. That (and cycling a bolt on a bolt action) has to be the controlling factor in getting back on target--not recoil.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good point. It's really only of value on a semi-auto. After I posted yesterday I got to thinking, it really has nothing to do with the "manliness" question of being able to handle the concussion of recoil. It's all about reduced muzzle flip for the double-tap, i.e. subsequent shots. Since competition has a lot to do with speed, and compensators tend to show up on guns called competition models, I tend to believe properly done porting works to some degree. But I also know that competition guys tend to use the lightest loads that will cycle their weapon specifically so they can contend with a minimum of recoil effect. They must all run tests with Wolff springs to make their guns shoot at all...Short conclusion: I'm no expert. All I know is how a gun acts when I fire it. If it throws crap in my face or the flash goes straight up and blinds me at night, or the ball rolls out the barrel and falls to the ground, I'm not gonna be a fan. ;D
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anything marketed after the Remington 700 and the Winchester 70 were introduced is a gimmick. I'm talking only turning bolt rifles, of course. Porting, fluting, stainless steel, all of that is BS, advanced by marketers and beancounters. I have no problem with the stuff, it's a reason to buy a new gun, but we don't need it, not really.Clouder..
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,447 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offerer I really enjoy your discourses on physics and engineering. They show strong evidence you actually know what you are talking about. I would not ask you to admit it in public, but I am beginning to think you are actually an engineer. Thanks for your insight on several threads!
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  • hunter280manhunter280man Member Posts: 705 ✭
    edited November -1
    Hey; Swede, I've got a 835 with porting. Its my 3rd one. I like it better than the first two, first one being the origional round forestock, second being a crown grade w/o porting. I suffered many bleeding noses working on 3.5 in. turkey rounds in the first style. The second had the choke threads crooked, it didn't seem to kick quite as hard. When I got the gun back from mossey they gave me the new ported barrel. Dont get me wrong it still sets you back but the gun doesnt seem to jump up at your face with the big dogs in it.
    The older I get, The better I was!!!
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  • bsebastbsebast Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did fire a rifle one time that had a "necessary" muzzle break. It was a WWII anti-tank rifle designed to be fired from the shoulder. The recoil was, to say the least, remarkable. The muzzle break caused a momentary vacuum behind the rifle which took your breath away for an instant. Comparatively speaking, it made a 458 win mag seem like a pellet rifle.
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  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just to the point this time. It works, I've done it, I like it. I need to know if anyone has done it on a 454 casull with a 9.5" bbl. length, as I want to control the muzzle flip on mine, anyone? My .338 kicks less than a 30-06 due to its porting, sweet gun.
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
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  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    I shoot some fairly heavy calibers for being just a normal run of the mill hunter. I shoot 475 and 510 caliber rifles. Launching 500 to 570 grain bullets from 2350 to 2500 FPS. This in 10 and 11 pound rifles. None are ported. I have had several smaller calibers that were ported by Manga-port and it worked quite well. I do seriously doubt a 400 FPS loss in velocity though. Even cutting the barrel off those 3 inches would not equal a 400 FPS loss in velocity.
    Allen Glore
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've fired a lot of rounds through My Commander with and without a compensator and the comp. definitely helps get back on target faster. I've also got a compensator made for the BM-59 on one of my Garands and it not only reduces muzzle flip, it almost negates recoil. It's designed to reduce recoil when the BM-59 is fired in the full auto mode. The full auto mode being so rapid, the compensator must continually pull against the recoil. In full auto, it neutralizes the recoil. In semi-auto, it actually tends to pull the weapon forward slightly. When I first used it I couldn't figure out why it felt so strange.My friend (who builds Garands for Arlington Ordnance) fired it and knew immediately what it was. Mudge the informant(Did I say that right?)
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS![This message has been edited by mudge (edited 02-07-2002).]
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  • WyomingSwedeWyomingSwede Member Posts: 402 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bsebast...in answer to your query. My 300 win mag is my elk rifle. I try to put at least 100 rounds through the rifle prior to hunting season. That way I am confident as to where it shoots and should something unusual come up...I have the practice and time in to be able to make the shot. I feel I owe it to the game to kill cleanly. As to the porting issue, we may not agree all of us on the necessity or not of the practice. Some feel it works...some dont. As an economic reality, we all vote with our pocketbooks. If marlin makes more sales with porting than without, the market has spoken. I personally feel if the mechanism ( be it ported, boss, or brake) allows you to shoot more or more confidently due to less recoil (perceived or not.) then go for it. I think recoil is a major factor why lot of people dont get more interested in the shooting sports. We dont all like vanilla ice cream and I feel porting has a place. swede
    WyomingSwede
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  • bsebastbsebast Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Swede-- I accept your points...they are well made and obviously based on experience. This has been an informative and lively post. Thanks for your participation.
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  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    I'm sorry, but porting is not a gimmick. It does work for it's intended purpose, and that is to cut down on perceived recoil. Putting a brake on a firearm is designed to cut down on rearword recoil, porting is not.BseBast, getting back on target with a lever, bolt or pump action firearm quickly, with or without porting requires the shooter to have the bolt, lever or slide in motion during recoil. Recoil actually helps to get a pump back into action and on target quite nicely. Practice operating your lever, bolt or slide during the recoil portion of the shot, not after the firearm comes back down.
    Allen Glore
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  • sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    And why would anybody not like vanilla ice cream?
    Have Gun, will travel
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  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    They work but I think it depends largely on what the shooter is more intimidated by, the recoil or the blast and noise. In my case the reaction from the blast and noise probably negate any benifit the porting provides.
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  • redcedarsredcedars Member Posts: 919 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While my experience with porting is limited to handguns I have to say there is no doubt in my mind a properly designed ported barrel reduces recoil and flip.However, the amount of flash re-directed upwards into the line of sight definitely affects vision in low-light situations. Just my 2 cents worth.redcedars
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    HeDog --Thanks. No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night....I've been a tech writer and an industrial marketing writer and done some sales, none of it in firearms, which is purely an "enthusiasm" for me. I try to make clear when I don't know something for sure. That's the best I can do; otherwise, I just call 'em as I see 'em, like everybody else here.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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