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Vehicles on a dealers are locked because they sit on the lot on a 24x7 basis, and for a good portion of that time, they are unattended. The dealer has too much inventory that must be in one permanent place for customers to view, yet that he can't keep an eye on each individual car or truck. I see some similarities between selling cars and guns, but not as much as some people are trying to conclude.
The comment below made by Antique Dr. may be a good reason as to why so many people at gun shows dont know what they are doing at gun shows.I have seen gun shows deteriorate rapidly over the past 10-15 years to where they are really no more than glorified travelling flea markets. Not my scene.I think it may be wrong to lump the few of us here that dont like signs telling us to ask first, into a minority though. I believe there are a lot of people that dont like it, and many people are just as I am and others, if they cant afford it, they dont touch it. If they handle it they handle it correctly. That being said, why should we have to stand around waiting to look at it, as it has been said before, when we know we are going to be told ok, pick it up. That mind set is what has caused us to lose some of our credit as gun owners. Some gun owners have screwed up, now the antis are out to get all gun owners, follow me? The point being, I feel as if I'm being demeaned and looked down upon by a dealer with that darn sign, when in fact I may handle the gun more carefully than he even does, and with the utmost respect for that gun. Now, to elaborate on AntiqueDr.'s quote above. I think he is right about the gun shows turning into flea markets. As well as that being a reason all the non gun handling idiots are showing up. I blame it on the people who run these shows, wanting to make a buck. I personally hate going to gun shows wanting to look at guns and related equipment, and find nothing but rows and rows of surplus military equipment, crafts, jewelry, Bubba's Homemade Hot Sauce, and all the other completely non gun related items. I believe if the shows were strictly guns, accessories for the guns, and ammo related items, along with repair parts, that type of stuff, and not all the G.I. joe crap, that should be sold at a flea market or a pawn shop, the quality of a gun show would go up drasticly, and the signs about ask before touching would probably be able to be removed from the tables. Each of us has valid points, but I think that this is the main problem. Do you invite men to a Mary Kay Cosmetics show? Then why invite a bunch of craft makers to a gun show, and let them bring along their buyers with them. A gun show, well run, will make good money.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
The comparison of vehicles and guns is interesting, but to have a fair comparison we should go a bit further. Properly looking at a gun means handling it without popcorn salt on your hands, not spinning the cylinder, flipping the the cylinder in or out (like people see in the movies and then do with someone elses guns, I know I watched it more times than I'd like to remember), dry firing the heck out of a new gun (rimfire or center fire), setting or worse yet, dropping one gun on another, the list goes on and on. Something tells me if you look at a car or semi tractor at a dealership, they will encourage your behavior if it might lead to a sale, but about the time you take it for a test drive doing power slides, putting it up on two wheels, spilling food or drink in the interior, or playing bumper cars on the freeway, jumping parked cars, etc., I suspect they too will get a bit testy and ask you to stop the car, get out and never come back to the dealership. The damage those acts would have on a automobile are compareable to some of the things I've witnessed people doing to other peoples guns. Unfortunately not everyone was shown as a child how to properly handle a gun. I had a guy do some of the stuff I previously described to a revolver. When I scolded him for his misbehavior, he said he was trying to impress his wife. He had seen some guy do that in a movie and she thought it looked cool. I had to point out that that was a movie prop, this is a real gun, and not HIS real gun. If he'd like to buy it and damage it by whipping the cylinder in and out with a flip of the wrist, that would be fine. So many people now days only know about guns what they have seen in the movies or on TV. So when comparing guns to cars, make sure to take it to the degree that would actually cause damage, whether it be cosmetic or mechanical. That will help to make it a more fair comparison.
The signs are for the "city folk" who were raised by a nanny and never learned to properly respect someone else's property, much less someone else's guns.Never pick up a gun without asking, never dry fire or rack a slide without permission, and always thank the person for their courtesy and allowing you to look.Common courtesy down south!
Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
There are many ways to display guns at a show other than just laying your best antique pieces out on the front table. People don't go to gun shows like they go to a museum -- they (hopefully) go to shop. At a popular table with 8 or 10 people crowding in for space to look, you'd almost have to have queue ropes (like the line at the bank) to keep people from touching without "asking first." It's unrealistic, especially if you've got a spread of 4 or more tables stretched out at a busy show. Frankly, I'd be happy to wear a "My name is ___ and I'm an NRA member" sticker and get better treatment if that's all it took. We might even sell a few more NRA memberships at gun shows once people saw the advantageous treatment. I frequently wear an NRA pin anyway, and am wearing a gun or two for sale or trade. Bringing the babies to a gun show is, I suppose, defensible from the dad's point of view (not mine), but handing your kid merchandise while he's holding a Coke is at least 4 layers of stupidity one atop the other. Sticky fingers, lack of coordination, the cost of the item, the cup on the table -- it takes a dude in Cooper's "condition white" (dead to the world) not to realize the inadvisability of that. You should have at least taken his 20 bucks. I still say the attitude problems in gun shops and shows are much too common. Even the dealers declare that about one another whenever they talk about their competition. Of course, they always say its the other guys who are doing it wrong and don't know how to say please and thank you to their customers. Don't get me wrong, I take no pleasure in saying any of this. I enjoy gun shows and trips to the shops immensely. I always seem to find that I need another holster, or more ammo, or another gun or a different stock or barrel. I just don't always find that enthusiasm returned, and often will solo through my browsing until I'm ready to buy because there's no point in engaging someone who's indifferent to my presence. I might as well add one more thing I believe may be true. Gun enthusiasts, including dealers, are a little like men of different religions or politics. The hunting type doesn't necessarily respect the black guns type, the experienced don't always have patience with the newcomers who need to be educated, and so on. The "true" gun dealers don't always respect the Army surplus guys. I wish we could get past all that. I don't see that one is any "better" than the other. I don't care if you're selling Weatherbys, Hi-Points, Remingtons, Uzis, or Grizzly .50bmg's, if you're selling with customer satisfaction in mind and a helpful attitude. (I just won't buy the Hi-Point, probably). Can't we all just get along?
"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."[This message has been edited by offeror (edited 02-26-2002).]
I haven't set up shop at a gun show in years, but I understand the reason behindthose signs. Serious buyers will ask. The "looky lous" are offended and go abuse someone else's guns. By the way, my signusually said something like: "We Trade!!!Let's Talk!!!".
The comment from the dealers, former dealers, are really incredible to me. I can now see why we have so many problems with America. I've pretty much decided listening to this thread that some of our stiffest critics on proper gun handling and the low estimate of people that go to gun shows comes from right within our own ranks. I'd have never thought it, but its true, half the gun dealers here have a serious problem with the very people that put bread on the table for them. Man......
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
There are a few serious buyers who go to gun shows. About 20% of those that come through the doors.The other 80% are just kicking tires. Maybe they're there for the jerky, I dont know.
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I go as a serious buyer, and sometimes buy, but often come away without even the jerkey (they don't sell jerky at the shows here). Frequently, when I look at rifles I know, they are mis-identified (the varients of model 99's for example) and frequently priced higher than the local gunshops. Some guys are great to deal with and some are jerks. I see no reason to imagine that they would be better than the average of people with any common intrest.
Robsguns, I don't think you've got a clear picture of the dealers here. The dealers, former dealers, whatever aren't saying everyone is incompetent, far from it. You can have 1000 people throught the door of a gun show, 999 of them are good honest people, they pick up guns with the proper care, handle them respectfully, don't throw them around, flip cylinders in or out, they handle the gun like it was their own. Dealers don't have a problem with those guys. It is that one * that thinks he knows everything about guns, everything is for him to play with, and the stuff you see in the movies is the way you handle a gun. That guy, that one guy out of a thousand, it is that guy that these guys are concerned about. That one guy isn't on this board. He doesn't know * about guns and how to handle them. Its that one guy who dropped the $3500 gun, spilled the coke, flipped the cylinder (hard), dropped the cylinder on the floor, stood with his coffee cup at his chest as he bent down and poured it all over my Ruger on the table... It is that guy that we are talking about, he is the reason for this concern. I don't know all the guys on the GB boards, but from what I've seen they are either pretty knowledgable about guns or have an honest interest to learn. These guys, most everyone here, can handle my guns without asking anytime they want, because I'll bet that they know how to do it. It is that 1 guy out of the 1000, that is the guy, that is the guy that the sign is meant for. Unfortunately that one guy will be the guy that is so unobservant, that he won't see the sign anyway. I hope I'm speaking out of turn for the guys that have had problems in the past, but I for one encourage people to look at the guns. It is just the guy that picks up the .22 pump and starts racking the slide and pulling the trigger a dozen times before I have to raise my voice and point out to him that that is very bad to do to a gun. That guy, he is the one I have a problem with. And yes that happened last fall at a show. The guy was easily in his 40's too. He should have known better. The first time or two he did it I didn't say anything, but after he started doing it as fast as he could rack the slide, I had to raise my voice and point out the error of his ways. He then looked at me like a puppy who was scolded for peeing on the rug. Apparently he didn't know any better. He does now. I realize it might sound like some of these guys are down on the public, I DON'T THINK THAT IS TRUE. They are just trying to relate to you what problems they have had with that one guy, that one guy out of 1000. He isn't you or your buddy. He isn't a member of your family. He isn't one of your hunting or shooting buddies. You know why I know this? I'll tell you why. That one guy that I'm talking about, if you saw the way he handles guns, you wouldn't let him hunt with you, you wouldn't let him shoot with you, you value your life too much. If he was a member of your family, you would have squared him away years ago, because you'd never want him to handle YOUR GUNS the way he handled guns at the gun show.Guys, I think we are all on the same side, but our individual experiences give us different perspectives on certain issues.And that is what makes this country GREAT!!
Irarmsx, I understand where you are coming from, and I probably took the view of some here a little harder than I should have. Its just frustrating hearing so much negativity about gun owners, especially when you hear it from dealers. I understand there are some idiots out there, I just think it sucks that all of us get lumped into the category of 'needing to ask', because of those individuals. Your points are well taken, and correct.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Truly an outstanding thread from both sides of the argument. Offerer and at least a couple of others on both sides of the issue scored X-Rings in my book! I have to admit that every Saturday morning when I go to the local gun shop to shoot the bull I don't have a problem going over to the coffee pot grabbing a cup and slamming it down......when it comes to HIS guns I always ask whether or not I can pick it off the rack to look at it. To me it's common courtesy....his livelihood depends on those guns...and their pristine condition. If we were to start a thread right now called, "Idiots I have seen at Gunshows and what they did with the guns they picked up" I'm sure we would have far more stories than the 1 in a 1000 that offerer referred to. However I now understand why there are some people, that I used to think were just ignorant a$$holes, who pick up guns without the owner's permission. I'm afraid I can't do it but I'll try and be a little more understanding of those of you who do. Again truly an outstanding thread from all of you. Thanks, Beach.
I agree, Ryan. Unfortunately, it only takes one idiot to completely ruin the show. I'll tell you, after that joker smashed my Browning I was in a mood to require a cash deposit before anyone picked up anything else. Didn't do it, of course, but I sure felt like it. You would too, I'd bet. I cant count the number of times people would look at a gun then just plop it back on the table (clunk). Mind you, I spent a lot of time on presentation. All the long-guns not in luggage cases were oriented the same way, segregated as to gauge or caliber, and presented standing up at an angle (using dowel rod through the trigger guards) to both maximize table space and enhance presentation. All the stocks were polished with white cloth rags kept for that purpose, and all metal surfaces were wiped down several times each day. At the height of my gun show days, I was displaying almost $100,000 in merchandise. When I first started, nobody felt the need to have the signs or even the anti-theft cable. We simply covered our tables at night. Toward the end, the signs were everywhere, anti-theft cable was everywhere, and dealers were taking at least the more expensive stuff with them overnight.Why? Not because of the MAJORITY, but the minority. Because it only takes one idiot, or one thief. I stopped setting up at shows because the overall profit potential had decreased while the overall risk had INCREASED to the point where it just is not good business for me, anymore.
We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Ask us about Shepherd Scopes!Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
I had a seller (with a sign "no touch") after asking if the guy that was with me could hold one of his guns, tell me no. Dumb mistake. The guy I was with was looking for that particular gun, and when the guy said no, we walked. I guess I didn't look like I could afford the gun in question, and the guy with me looked worse.
Have Gun, will travel
The gun show i went, had all of there gun tied down to the table, and the slide was held open with a plastic cord, and the triggers were also tied down with a plastic cord.
Gene --Obviously these were a display and he had his sale stock in boxes under the table. Of course you can only do that with new stock, where you have more than one to sell. Not a bad idea for those who are really concerned. By the way, if I were running tables at a gun show and had to leave my stock overnight, I'd be worried too -- but I'll bet a missing gun would most likely have been picked up, not by a customer, but by somebody from another table. They have access when things are more private.
"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
Comments
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."[This message has been edited by offeror (edited 02-26-2002).]
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Ask us about Shepherd Scopes!Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Ask us about Shepherd Scopes!Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
Have Gun, will travel
"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."