UN and the Posse Comatatus Act of 1878

turbo

"The Posse Comatatus Act, Title 18,U.S.C, Section 1385, is a law, comprised of only a single sentence offifty-two words that makes it illegal to use "any part" of the U.S.Military (personnel or equipment) against U.S. citizens, the violation of which can result in a fine and imprisoned for up to two years." I am curious if anyone knows anything about the dismantling of this Act during the Reagan Administration? http://www.drms.dla.mil Secondly, it's no secret that police departments have been outfitted with surplus military equipment for implementation into police department swat operations.Under this Act only congress or the president are exempted from the being held accountable under this act but, by first declaring martial law, during a time of civil distrubance or perhaps times as we are experiencing today with the concerns of terrorisim.With the military, guarding our airports and boeders, what declaration if any has been made by congress or the president, just curious.

turbo

"The Posse Comatatus Act, Title 18,U.S.C, Section 1385, is a law, comprised of only a single sentence offifty-two words that makes it illegal to use "any part" of the U.S.Military (personnel or equipment) against U.S. citizens, the violation of which can result in a fine and imprisoned for up to two years." I am curious if anyone knows anything about the dismantling of this Act during the Reagan Administration? http://www.drms.dla.mil Secondly, it's no secret that police departments have been outfitted with surplus military equipment for implementation into police department swat operations.Under this Act only congress or the president are exempted from the being held accountable under this act but, by first declaring martial law, during a time of civil distrubance or perhaps times as we are experiencing today with the concerns of terrorisim.With the military, guarding our airports and boeders, what declaration if any has been made by congress or the president, just curious.What stirred me up to ask this question, was an old article I read in Newsweek, concerning the UN's security councilencourging for member nations to provide a civilian police force and make it available for instant deployment to areas of unrest with the boundaries of member nations, to help their national police quell distrubances, and since we do not have a national police force, (the closest thing we have to one could be the FBI).Then that got me to thinking that trained swat police department teams, outfitted with military equipment have at times been refereed to as the present day "militia" mentioned in the Constitution by certain liberal congressmen and senators.My question is this ; Is the militia as defined by the constitution excluded from having to abide by the Posse Comatatus Act.

beachmaster73

Wow turbo good question but I think the real issue is the federal aspects of the Posse Comatatus. I believe but am not certain that the National Guard is exempted from the Posse Comatatus. Thus during riot situations the Nation Guard can be called for civil unrest matters. The War on Terrorism doesn't meet the specifics of the Posse Comatatus. So federal troops can be utilized to guard certain installations in the United States. Their function at the airports is not so much one of police work as that of military guard. Bottom line I'd say the militia to me is primarily the individual states National Guards and I don't believe they have as many restrictions on them, unless they have been individually federalized, as the regular and reserve components of the military. Beach

TeleDetective

The Militia as described in the constitution and Second Ammendment are all able-bodied men, age 18-60. Modern day liberals are re-defining the militia to mean the national guard or law enforcement agencies. It is interesting to note the first police department in the US wasn't formed until 1845. They were forbidden to carry arms under the logic they could call upon armed citizens if such force was required. My understanding (as a former commission officer in the US Army) is it prevents Federal Forces (US Army, Airforce, Navy, Marines (Coast Guard?)) from being used against the citizenry. Selling surplus is different than if the Army loaned tanks to the LAPD with training on how to operate it for use against citizens. The National Guard is under command of the Governors, and are not subject to Posse Comatatus unless they are Federalized. Logic then says they are under federal control and are prevented from use against citizens by Posse Comatatus. The use by Governors of the National Guard at airports does not seem to violate the act for two reasons, 1) They are the national gaurd ordered there by the Governor and not federalized, 2) They are for use against (ostensibly) foreign nationals attacking the US. Just my thoughts.

offeror

It is an interesting question, since the Act could theoretically prevent the use of "assault weapons" by police agencies if ruled not for civilian use. The test for legality would then be, could LEO purchasing agents walk into a store and buy it like any good citizen? If not, only the armed forces would be entitled. Since gun bans prevent citizens from owning certain military designs, the Act could be interpreted as preventing any law enforcement agency from using anything on the ban list as well -- constitutionally speaking. Many gun laws created recently do carve out law enforcement as a separate entitled class -- to hi-cap mags, collapsing carbine stocks, short barrels and such. Could be a court case in it. This is probably one reason why so many police departments used to stick with buying wood stocked rifles like the Camp 9, Mini-14 ranch, Ruger 44, .30-30 and so on. Wouldn't it be something if the Posse Comitatus Act meant that gun control laws banning guns, features and accessories with military aspects from citizen ownership also prevented those items, by law, from being used anywhere in law enforcement? This would prevent gun banners from carving out police departments, FBI, DEA, and so on as exceptions to the rules. So either we all get hi-cap mags, or only the military does, etc. Fascinating, captain.

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