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Military Rifle under $650
trooperchin
Member Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
I would like to expand my horizons over just bp,handguns and shotguns. I would like to buy a good military rifle and im leaning towards perhaps a m1garand, cetme,or maybe an ak. Any advice? Also i'd mostly be using the rifle for plinking or possibly deer hunting.
Thanks alot.
Also for bulk ammo what would be cheaper .30-06, .308 or 7.62?
Go Army Beat Navy
IF you wanna have fun jine the cavalry
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:39:52
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:52:31
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:53:03
Thanks alot.
Also for bulk ammo what would be cheaper .30-06, .308 or 7.62?
Go Army Beat Navy
IF you wanna have fun jine the cavalry
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:39:52
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:52:31
Edited by - trooperchin on 07/11/2002 18:53:03
Comments
You've got a few things mixed up:
M1 Garand is normally in .30-06
5.56 is the same as .223, not .308
.308 is 7.62x54, the AK/SKS shoots 7.62x39 (same diameter, different case length)
HTH
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
Go Army Beat Navy
IF you wanna have fun jine the cavalry
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
Eric S. Williams
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
"Don't mistake my honesty for weakness...If I think your phony...I'll flame you in a heartbeat"...
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.
I hope you don't mind me correcting you.
The .308 is 7.62x51 NATO, I believe you were thinking of the 7.62x54 Russian.
"If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"
I didn't see your post before I posted mine.
me again
yall forget the german
they have the world famous Mauser
you can get new ones or actually never used from www.mitchellsales.com
they have from collector quality to shooter quality hungarian mauser for 200 buck for the shooter grade ones.i am planing to get one very soon just haven have time to go to my FFL dealer so that it can be ship there. and the ammo is cheap from www.sportmansguide.com fo 4.97 per 70 bullets.
well tell us what you dicided ok
JOIN THE ARMY BE ALL YOU CANNOT BE.
"Don't mistake my honesty for weakness...If I think your phony...I'll flame you in a heartbeat"...
1. Some sort of Enfield. Either .303 or .308, that is either a Brit or Indian would be great. I have a Mk IV and a Mk II 1A and both are very accurate and ammo is fairly cheap- and for .308 it is very cheap.
2. An 8mm Mauser- Turk, Czech, or Yugo are all available right now and very cheap. Either pick one out in person or pay for the hand select to get a good bore or get one advertised as in mint shape. Again, ammo is dirt cheap.
3. An M44 Mosin-Nagant. You can get one for well under $150 in unissued shape with all the goodies. Again, ammo is dirt cheap.
None of the guns above will be too expensive, and you could get all three mausers, both enfields, and the Nagant for your $650, or just get one and have a ton of money left over. Beware though- much ammo for these is corrosive and requires a thorough cleaning after each shooting with either soap and water or special solvent.
I have over 30 mil surplus guns and find them the only thing I want to shoot anymore. You'll get hooked, be warned.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
See what I was telling you earlier, Trooper. Great place to learn stuff, its OK to get mixed up on stuff as long as you learn the correct way in the end.
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
I believe those who suggest .308 or .30-06 are right, with .308 NATO being cheaper and more easily available these days for obvious reasons. I would add, though, that if you want a maximum utility gun, then the semi-autos have the edge over the bolt actions for home & neighborhood defense. And of course, though I hesitate to say it, an "older model that holds 8 rounds loaded by stripper clips" might be less desirable in this role than a more modern design with exchangeable box magazines, if you see where I'm going with this.
Under $650, some good choices have been suggested in semi-auto, among them the FAL. I would also consider the CETME/G3 variants -- IF you can get a good one with expert help. These are great, lightweight guns when in great condition. I might even consider steering you toward a good lightly USED gun, like an AR-10, which is also a .308 NATO caliber rifle. You seemed a bit tentative about the deer hunting -- so the only caution I would make here is that the mid-range rounds like the AKs and AR-15s have less recoil for plinking than a full-on battle rifle. So think about that, too. A battle rifle can also weigh as much as twice what a mid-range tactical rifle does. M1A? 15 pounds. Some of the AKs are closer to, and this is an off-hand guess, 7 or 8.
As far as AKs are concerned, even the AK sniper Dragonov rifles are not the most accurate of sniper rifles for hunting, and I've seen Dragonovs way overpriced for what you get, so if I were you and looking for a deer hunter I'd scratch AKs, much as I love 'em for tactical stuff. You don't need a Dragonov for plinking -- an AK would be more fun in that role, by the way.
For hunting deer, you're better off with any of the true battle rifles, probably in .308 NATO for price, and easy availability of ammo even in time of crisis. If you have to rely on mail order for your ammo, what are you going to do if things break down? And you don't need a bolt action for a good, accurate deer gun either, though it would certainly fill the bill for that alone. But do you really want to operate the bolt for every round while plinking?
One final thought -- you asked about price, and I think you'll find that the cheapest of the 3 is the AK round, the 7.62x39. Next higher the .308, and highest, the .30-06. Which of course leads one to the natural question, if you really want a plinker and decent deer gun, why not consider a Mini-30 as well? I'd drop it onto your list, anyway. Those stainless ones are purdy, too. They're light to carry, semi-auto, and they take scopes with no problemos.
Just some fodder for thought..... Everyone have a great weekend. The weather here is superb.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - offeror on 07/12/2002 14:16:01
Its not loaded with "stripper clips", its loaded with Enbloc or E clips, and they are much faster than stripper clips.
I can put 24 rounds in an 8" gong at 100 yards with my Garand, re-loading twice, only two seconds slower than my Uncle can put 20 in with his M1A.
With the right round for the right situation, its the shooter, not the rifle, that makes the difference.
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
"Don't mistake my honesty for weakness...If I think your phony...I'll flame you in a heartbeat"...
Don't forget a Mauser, Moslin Nagant, etc.
B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
I agree with simonbs that a trained (or even partially trained) rifleman can get MORE aimed shots off with an M1 than with an M1A (or M14) You can insert a clip and fire 5 or 6 rounds while the M1A user is changing mags.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
While I'm editing, I might as well add that I was not too impressed by simon's logic about what a trained rifleman might be able to do, especially when we're addressing someone buying his first rifle for plinking and a bit of deer hunting. Nor do magazines have the same limitations as clips in terms of the number of rounds per change. While the 10-rd. max may reduce the advantage, a pre-ban 20 rd. mag, especially if you use the jungle-clip method of attaching a couple of mags together for quicker reloads, probably increases the average rifleman's overall firepower. A man with a 20 rd. mag has to reload less than half as often as the man with the 8-rd clip, and can do it quicker with less training, I would think. I haven't bothered with clips all that much, though I've got a few of the strippers for my AK mags. I realize we're not talking those here, but in future never assume I'm talking post-ban mags, either. Don't like 'em, won't use 'em on a gun made to take the larger capacity ones. Even Springfield's website only shows their guns with the pre-ban mags in place. And that's 20 rounds to the Garand's 8.
I have nothing invested in which is the better rifle. Frankly, I prefer a lighter gun in general, so I would go for the Tanker in the Garand (as someone here suggested) or the bush rifle in the M1A anyway. What I lose in accuracy (if anything, because the gun generally shoots better than the man) I gain in portability. I have no doubt, and I mean this, that there is much to love about both these fine weapons. If I were a rich man (thanks, Fiddler) I'd own at least one of each. But I still wouldn't find them as handy as something the size of my AK type 56, maybe a G3 carbine, or certainly my M1 carbine (God bless you, Mr. Williams). Okay, group hug! (Just kidding....)
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - offeror on 07/13/2002 12:57:12