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Most underrated gun
offeror
Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
My vote goes to the M1 Carbine, both rifle and round.
The M1 Carbine is a 5-lb, .30 caliber wonder designed by Carbine Williams and similar in action (according to conventional wisdom) to the proven Garand.
The M1 Carbine is a marvel of simplicity and lightweight convenience, is available in a full auto as well as a paratrooper version, takes 15 and 30 rd. mags (of which the military variety are best), and sends a 110 or 115 gr. .30 caliber FMJ downrange at a speed no handgun could match: 1700 fps. Not bad for a 5-lb. rifle with good adjustable sights, especially since it's available in expanding softpoint loads.
The main bad rap on this carbine came during the Korean War -- that it didn't stop the enemy well -- but the enemy was wearing heavy parkas in the bitter cold while the Americans' toes were freezing off.
The only other bad point heard about these is the possibility of getting a bad 30-rd. mag from non-mil sources. Supposedly, the 15-rounders are more reliable in general, and the mil-spec 30 rounders are safe and reliable too. Must be some bad springs in those off-brands.
I love the .30 carbine. It's the gun Dad taught me defensive shooting on during the civil unrest in the 60s. I will always own one. Not only do I have an excellent military surplus shooter with a formerly worn but now beautifully hand-sanded stock (done by me), but I hope one day Dad will let me have the gun he taught me on -- a simple Iver Johnson (or was it a Universal?) that he bought at a discount store, maybe a K-Mart back when they were still selling guns. In any case, the M1 Carbine is not "as bad as" some folks think. Any 5-pounder that can send .30 cal softpoints downrange at the respectable muzzle velocity of 1700 fps is enough gun for many purposes. And they served our armed forces well past Korea and into the Viet Nam era, in the semi and full auto configurations. There was even a pistol length model, the Enforcer, for a while.
I'm not an expert on the entire list of manufacturers, by the way, but these were made by everybody from Postal Meter to Winchester. The Winchesters seem to bring the most nowadays, but even the Iver Johnsons are going up. Current production seems to be coming from Israel -- these are STILL being manufactured today.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
The M1 Carbine is a 5-lb, .30 caliber wonder designed by Carbine Williams and similar in action (according to conventional wisdom) to the proven Garand.
The M1 Carbine is a marvel of simplicity and lightweight convenience, is available in a full auto as well as a paratrooper version, takes 15 and 30 rd. mags (of which the military variety are best), and sends a 110 or 115 gr. .30 caliber FMJ downrange at a speed no handgun could match: 1700 fps. Not bad for a 5-lb. rifle with good adjustable sights, especially since it's available in expanding softpoint loads.
The main bad rap on this carbine came during the Korean War -- that it didn't stop the enemy well -- but the enemy was wearing heavy parkas in the bitter cold while the Americans' toes were freezing off.
The only other bad point heard about these is the possibility of getting a bad 30-rd. mag from non-mil sources. Supposedly, the 15-rounders are more reliable in general, and the mil-spec 30 rounders are safe and reliable too. Must be some bad springs in those off-brands.
I love the .30 carbine. It's the gun Dad taught me defensive shooting on during the civil unrest in the 60s. I will always own one. Not only do I have an excellent military surplus shooter with a formerly worn but now beautifully hand-sanded stock (done by me), but I hope one day Dad will let me have the gun he taught me on -- a simple Iver Johnson (or was it a Universal?) that he bought at a discount store, maybe a K-Mart back when they were still selling guns. In any case, the M1 Carbine is not "as bad as" some folks think. Any 5-pounder that can send .30 cal softpoints downrange at the respectable muzzle velocity of 1700 fps is enough gun for many purposes. And they served our armed forces well past Korea and into the Viet Nam era, in the semi and full auto configurations. There was even a pistol length model, the Enforcer, for a while.
I'm not an expert on the entire list of manufacturers, by the way, but these were made by everybody from Postal Meter to Winchester. The Winchesters seem to bring the most nowadays, but even the Iver Johnsons are going up. Current production seems to be coming from Israel -- these are STILL being manufactured today.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Comments
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - offeror on 07/25/2002 17:11:14
Gun control is hitting your target
I also think that the Dragunov is underrated. People say it isn't accurate enough for a sniper rifle cause it won't get sub MOA groups. But thats cause no one can get the factory russian sniper ammo that it was designed to shoot. They can spit a 3" group at 300meters with it. Thats effective enough for me, along with the semi-auto capability and ultra-reliable action. I'd say it was the ideal military sniper weapon.
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
Eric S. Williams
Eric S. Williams
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
tungsten core finned sabot slugs
Ooooooooooooo Yeah BABY!!
Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
Edited by - Matt45 on 07/26/2002 19:10:28
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
"This new pistol from behind the Iron Curtain is possibly the most advanced 9mm service auto in the world. I hold no ill will toward the Czechs, a prisoner people held in communist bondage by force of arms, but it is disquieting to see them producing what appears to be a better sidearm (if one can accept its marginally effective cartridge) than anything made on our side of the barbed wire. -- Jeff Cooper
"The above quote from a 1977 issue of Guns & Ammo was, for most of our readers, a fairly startling introduction to the Czech model 75. Coming from our most respected 1911 proponent -- a man not especially noted for dispensing fulsome praise -- made is especially intriguing..."
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878