FFL signed copies ink color

roy rogers

Can anybody show me where in the ATF regs. that a FFL's signature needs to be in blue or red? The FFL itself only states: "Note you have recieved only one original license. DO NOT SIGN THE ORIGINAL LICENSE prior to making copies, as the signature on each certified copy must be an original." Heck, it doen't even say it has to be ink, just original. With color printers, scanners, and copiers I can't see where this is comming from, besides most ballpoint pens are distinguisable, reguardless of color, from copy as you can see where the roller went. Many FFL copies will be in color anyway. I have read blue or red ink many places, including here, but not on any ATF material or website. Someone please show me where it is. Thanks.

aglore

There is no specified color that they have to be signed in.

AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
http://canadianfirearmsexchange.com

Buy firearms on the installment plan and Play while you Pay.

aglore@gci.net

roy rogers

Here is a link from this website that states blue or red signatures:
http://www.gunbroker.com/user/VerifyLicenseForm.asp

outdoortexas

Just one more safety measure in the loop. But you are correct.

dheffley

The color of blue or red is so someone won't copy a signed FFL in all black and try to pass it off as a new one.

Measure twice, cut once.

Empty the clip!

He Dog

With red or blue ink you are sure it is not a photo copy.

My heros have always killed cowboys.

RancheroPaul

MIGHT be that some of the folks with aging eyes might find it easier to be sure it was an "original copy" if the color is different from a black lettered copy.......but who the hell would want to make it easy for someone to be sure they complied with the law? Just complain about it and be arbitrary and contrary........Send it in Black then if that makes you happy! You're right about there is no requirement.....just a courteous request to make things easier but why bother? "Holy Freakin' Tomatoes!"


Contrary to what you may have been told, "Green Jello is a Side Dish, NOT Dessert!"

tr fox

He Dog: what about color copiers?

When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.

roy rogers

quote:Originally posted by RancheroPaul
MIGHT be that some of the folks with aging eyes might find it easier to be sure it was an "original copy" if the color is different from a black lettered copy.......but who the hell would want to make it easy for someone to be sure they complied with the law? Just complain about it and be arbitrary and contrary........Send it in Black then if that makes you happy! You're right about there is no requirement.....just a courteous request to make things easier but why bother? "Holy Freakin' Tomatoes!"


Contrary to what you may have been told, "Green Jello is a Side Dish, NOT Dessert!"



I have and will continue to send original blue or red signatures when requested. Please don't be fooled into thinking that a signature is original due to color alone. I would guess 90% of the people on this board have the capability of making the signature any color you want and it still will not be original. This kind of technology has been around for 20+ years and now anyone can afford it, all you need is a color scanner and printer. I look at the back of the FFL and feel I can tell by pressure and if a felt tip soaks through unevenly, etc. Color alone could be very misleading and really of no value in determining is the signature is original.

nunn

I did business ONCE, and once only, with a moron who insisted that the law said the FFL had to be signed in blue ink. I told him I had no blue pen, and habitually sign my FFLs in red. He went ballistic and threw a fit, saying he had to have a blue signature or no deal.

I gathered up all the kids' colored markers and signed the FFL about 20 times in 20 different colors, including the requisite blue.

When he got the gun and the FFL, he threatened to report me to the BATF for breaking the law. I told him to go ahead, but that if I suffered any inconvenience as a result of his bogus complaint, that I would sue him. I heard no more from him.

Idiot.

SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net

RugerNiner

It's so the FFL can't be Faxed.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

offeror

Whatever it is for, I can tell you this. It is very easy to scan a copy of ANY signed FFL, even an all black copy of a copy, and turn that signature from black to blue in PhotoShop and print it to your heart's content. This, of course, would not prevent you from getting in trouble when the document analysts get ahold of it as an exhibit in a court case. They can certainly tell pen ink from printer ink. I do think sometimes it would be a convenience to have several copies of your transfer dealer's FFL on hand for when you win an auction and wish to get the envelope mailed without delay, but of course the easiest way (ahem) would/should be to ask him if he'll sign a few copies for your future purchases in advance. My guess is this would inexplicably infuriate certain dealers, too.

By the way, I do see the advantage of any color but black -- nobody wants to have to play counterfeit detector with a magnifying glass. On the other hand, the blue only or red only guys are, well, your typical odd variety of gun dealer, and you know the kind I mean without me having to describe their various idiosyncracies. They are often flushed out at gun shows; usually they have a very large and visible chip on their shoulder at the world for no sane reason whatsoever, and are determined to take it out on everyone in sight...

T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

barto

Just take a piece of copy paper & sign it.(any color)
Now turn it over & look at it.
Can a copier make those imprints?
Sheeesh!
[^][^]barto

Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names.-JFK

IAMACLONE_2

Another pain with paperwork, also had to deal with a dealer that would only take the sigature in RED,sigature was in blue ink on a black/white photocopy.
selling dealer called his local police, the cops told the dealer it was a atf deal they did not want to be involved.

dealer kept the copy, and would not ship.

Transaction was voided, found a better deal locally anyway.
Walte

kissgoodnight

I have a C&R and the dealer that orders modern firearms for me, refuses to sign in any ink other than black. I have asked for blue or red as some of the worryer's ask, but he says that is how he signs.

offeror

Likd I said before, since there is obviously no law backing these weirdos up, they are nut cases. I suspect the small business gun dealer segment of the economy has more than its share, given the frequency with which I run into one of these 'rugged individualists.'

T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."