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agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
Please take note of the little side bar on page 32 of the Sept. 2002 issue. I't titled "What's the Point"? This has to do with a previous thread and a lot of doubters out there. Written by Craig Boddington.

AlleninAlaska

Free men are not equal and equal men are not free
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  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Very interesting. For those without a copy of the magazine handy, Col. Boddington states (not as "Something I've heard", or "Some people think", or anything like that, but as straight out fact), "In fast cartridges, exposed lead tips burn off from air friction, but polymer tips do not ....."

    I was one of those who thought that lead tips melting off from air friction was just one of those urban myths. Now I ain't so sure. If Col. Boddington thinks that they do, well, I may have to rethink my position a bit, I guess.


    Edit -

    Of course, he doesn't say just exactly HOW fast is "A fast cartridge"!


    Edited by - .280 freak on 08/08/2002 10:17:52
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  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    Thank you 280freak. Wonder where all the nay sayers are. Sure were quick to jump me for saying the same thing as Boddington states. Must be the cat got their tongues.

    AlleninAlaska

    Free men are not equal and equal men are not free
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  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First off, I think I was one of the na sayers. Just hung up from a talk with Hornady. Lead tips burn OFF past 2600 fps. I~am wrong, I` am wrong. I~am wrong. God that hurt. varmit the guilty.

    The most important things, Are not things.
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  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    Heck Ronnie, now I even like you more. Thank you. Takes a genuine person who will admit to being wrong.

    Just don't understand why people would think that I would have tried to led them down some fantasy lane when I first brought that subject up about jacketed bullet lead tips.

    Of course there will be others that won't have the gonads to admit that I was right. One in particular after he even called and talked to a Speer Technician. Just goes to show what Speer knows about making bullets.

    AlleninAlaska

    Free men are not equal and equal men are not free
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  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Allen, But it still hurts. Just one more thing on that very long list of thngs I thought knew but don't.

    I would have thought that the tip melting away would have caused the bullet to yaw, Hornady tec said no. Being a hard headed Texan, I know that I am wrong, Just cant agree with myself that I am.

    The most important things, Are not things.
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  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Allen,
    Its all a lie, Hornady is telling that to everyone just to try and sell the new HMR bullets as a costly bullet.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was certainly a doubter, and probably would not take Boddington's word, since I don't on much else. I will trust Hornady, but I don't believe any factory ammo I shoot goes that fast. Gonna have to get ol Varmit to whip me up some.

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    And polymer tips are used because they are "nearly indestructible" and reliably open the hollow point as they are pushed down into the softer lead of the bullet cavity -- kind of puts that "plastic melting in the sun thing" to bed as well.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HeDog, Ill brew you some up. There wont be nuthin but blue vapor come out the end of the barrel. That way you cant hunt those muleys when the season is closed. I am still working on your Neilgi hunt. Ten years ago we were shooting them for pest. They don't jump fences. They hook there horns under the bottom wire, And throw the fence over there back. Now all the ranchers wont big bucks to take care of there problem.

    The most important things, Are not things.
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  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    I was not one of the chosen few who get to write things in monthly magazines! I do read them and marvel at what is written! I don't beleive what I've read until proving it to myself! Some of those writers are just that....Writers!! Wind drift with tables for particular calibers is probably the most arguable things they write about but ya'll just try out their tables and see if they work!! GHD
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  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Charlie, You wont wind charts. I can cookum up for you, And give you the click chart. All I need is the M.V. and B.C.. Did Miss Sarah get a package today?.

    The most important things, Are not things.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    aglore --
    I think I remember making an easy joke about the concept of bullets burning up on re-entry, but it wasn't to be taken as a serious weighing in on the subject. Frankly, I'm sure there is a speed at which lead, one of the softest metals, burns in the atmosphere. NASA would certainly agree. Personally, I just don't know what that speed is. If Hornady says it's 2600 fps, okay. If Hornady and Speer disagree, well, Speer makes those nice jacketed boattails so maybe they don't encounter the problem --hehehehhe!

    I hear the new Hornady .17 has a MV of 2550 fps, but it's a jacketed bullet so it wouldn't be a factor there anyway. As for raw lead, I wonder how many people are shooting raw lead at rifle speeds sufficient to burn off any significant bullet weight. Now you've got me wondering. Do my little .30 carbine softpoint rounds lose any weight at all at 1700 fps? Probably not much. What about the .45-70? A little more likely, maybe. African calibers? Who shoots unjacketed rounds in an African caliber? I'm no expert on that. There are some things I don't opine about because I don't know much about them -- single shot Contenders, black powder muskets, military life and training (I was college deferred during VietNam), and African heavy calibers are among them. While I do admire a nice Weatherby in a heavy .30 or .40 caliber, I'm not planning to join any Jeff Cooper safaris.

    In practical use, I don't know whether bullet erosion due to friction has ever been a real problem, or if it is more in the nature of an engineering consideration, or just a nice little trivia question. I would be interested in hearing more about it in any case. Apparently, lead particles break off due to the heat friction without reaching such temperatures as to glow from the heat, or lead bullets that were subject to this effect would glow in the dark like tracers.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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