In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

"Disappearing" al-Qaeda Prisoners

BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
Based on what I've been hearing (and reading) from a number of sources, apparently a fair number of captured al-Qaeda have been mysteriously "transferred" to countries such as Israel, Egypt, and Pakistan.

Here's where it gets a little Judge Dread-esque. Some of these "transfers" were apparently arranged between known CIA operatives and foreign intelligence representatives, and carried out using CIA Lear-Jets and Gulfstream IVs. The agencies the prisoners were transferred to included Egypt's GDSSI (General Directorate of State Security Investigations), and Israel's Mossad.

Israel obviously would be glad to help us, but Egypt's participation is more surprising. Ever since Nasser's reign, Islamic fundamentalists have been trying to wrest power away from the democratically elected government. They've been mortal enemies for a long time, and the government has suffered many attacks, so they understandably harbor no love for terrorists.

In fact, the GDSSI for years has been accused of torturing Islamic radicals to obtain information. In 1986, forty GDSSI officers went on trial for 422 charges of torture that were brought by members of a terrorist group called Al-Jihad (later believed to be responsible for the massacre of 56 foreign tourists at the temple of Hatshepsut in November 1997).

I think this may be a double-edged sword. It's clearly an effective way to get around the US's prohibition on torture in any circumstances, and torture may just be the only thing that can crack some of these tough nuts (so to speak). But on the other hand, it's a possible publicity nightmare, and who's to say that the Iraqis or the Palestinians wont take this as a cue to torture THEIR prisoners (assuming they dont do it already *COUGH*)?

What are your feelings on this?

Comments

  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's why special ops are uniquely qualified to carry out this kind of campaign. They're trained "when in Rome..." It's an short step from not minding what your allies do, to giving them a few extra prisoners to do it to. You made your own point when you suggested that our enemies have no compunction about using similar methods widely and indescriminately. At least we think about it first, and factor in morality as one element of the decision as to when and whether it's necessary.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like a Turban Legend.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
  • Harleeman1030Harleeman1030 Member Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where have you seen heard or read this bullz..I have seen nor read anything about this but that don't mean squat...
    Don't get me wrong i think we have our hands tied sometimes
    and i wish nothing more then to see an eye for an eye..But if something like this was going on why have we not heard of it...

    I can't have feelings until i know a little more


    If we lived in a perfect world you would not be here
    NRA MEMBER
  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If the military could keep a secret they should of kept the fact that we had taken prisoners secret. Then no one would of ever known.
    When I become President......
    The military will be operated like the CIA; elite, feared, and will be punished for leaking any information by dismisal, treason, or death.
    All Operations will be conducted on a need to know bases, Civilians, Politicians, and the press are not on a need to know bases.
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ok so we cant torture prisoners but we will ship them off to countries we know will torture them?we still cant escape culpability the same way a person who hires a hitman is as guilty as the hitman. so why the charade

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    "When I become President......
    The military will be operated like the CIA; elite, feared, and will be punished for leaking any information by dismisal, treason, or death.
    All Operations will be conducted on a need to know bases, Civilians, Politicians, and the press are not on a need to know bases."

    Nitrouz - so you are saying that this country's people do not need to know what it's own forces are doing - even though they are fighting for idea's and freedoms of Democracy? Is this an Oxymoron or Irony?

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • ladrladr Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    tinfoilhat rumors.

    NO GUTS, NO GLORY
  • wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This can't possibly be true or you would have seen it here first on the C&P news.

    ....................
    AD ASTRA PER ASPERA

    To the stars through difficulties
    standard.jpg
  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My feelings are,,they should send Sigfreid and Roy down there and make them all disappear,,,,("POOF"),,,"APPLAUSE",,

    "Just my opinion."
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't care what they do to them. They are not citizens of the US. They are enemies. If the US wants to ship a few or the whole bunch off to friends that have an interest, so be it.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe Israel & Eygypt are both (nominally) friendly to US interests and certainly both have 'a need to know' what's happening in the world of Islamic fanatics. Makes good sense to me and if the US should happen to benefit from the efforts of other intelligence agencies, I will not lose a moment's sleep. This wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last.
  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Wundudnee,....Ditto.
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bullz:

    As a fresh, wet-behind-the-ears recruit of 18 years (nudge, nudge-wink, wink), I think you should ask yourself the question;

    Would you do it of your own volition or even if someone ordered it done?

    Your answer will be interesting, predictable, but interesting just the same.

    Clouder..
  • pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ALL is ok!...until you refuse to give in your gun and you dissapear
    too ....

    Just think! as someone outlaws your way of thinking and railroads you to a total control....urban legend or legendary nightmare the future depairs for all of us .....

    Over 5,000 kids dissapear in US yearly....has BUSH declared a war on pedophyles or satanists ? ....the answer is no! why? .....

    They dont have petroleum!!!!!

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Doesn't bother me a bit. In Korea, North Korean line crossing agents were frequently captured by U.S.forces and turned over to the South Korean Military for interrogation. It was widely known that their methods included torture. ROK officers would shoot their own guards on the spot if they were caught sleeping on duty, so what's a little torture.
    Heck, war is serious business with some people.
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Egypt is one of the few countries that is considered friendly in that region, as a matter of fact, we just agreed to sell them 315 million in weaponary.

    Africa is a strange place, hell look at Libya and their new and improved attitude. As a "former" terror training and supporting country they are now publically agianst it.

    C & P... I like that
  • snake-eyessnake-eyes Member Posts: 869
    edited November -1
    I would of been glad if my tax dollars would of been used to turn those male Al Quaeda prisoners into females and dropped off right back in Afghanistan. It's better than killing them, they would had...a very interesting life over there.

    *If there is one gun for every 7 people in the world, I'm saving alot of people money*
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    tinfoilhat rumors.



    Have to agree with Ladr on this one.

    "You attract more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar." Of course you have to find the right people who like honey, but you end up with reliable information that way.

    Torture can yield poor information, can be bad for your own side's morale, and is just not a good policy if one claims to respect human rights.

    The only possible application of "torture"--I prefer the term "brutal interrogation"--I could find somewhat acceptable is when innocent lives are at immediate risk and speedy information could save those innocent lives. A good example would be a kidnapped person, still unrescued, but one of the kidnappers is caught--the need for immediate information would be critical.
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    twins, too bad ,i think someone spoofed my posting of the letter from the peoples of islam I found in the official LIBIAN GOVERMENT site ....

    Find it with a search engine and READ THIS LETTER .....

    The notion arabs nations favor US is a big pile of dung!

    They favor their religion first ,second and third after that nothing
    else exept our money and weapons , they know if they want to strangle us we will sell them the rope ........and some made in US boxcutters
    to cut the rope and bring down the corpse!

    SIMPLE AS THAT !

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    snake-eyes --
    Your solution would be interesting -- what would these poor martyrs do with 70 virgins when they got to Allah's heaven THEN???

    Not the most uplifting humor, I admit, but a funny thought nonetheless. Perhaps such men would then AVOID the shame of suicide bombing in order not to meet their virgins "unequipped."

    Which only underlines what "hooey" the whole concept of heaven for bombers is. Every bomber has had his equipment blown off for sure. It would make a good Twilight Zone episode. A bunch of workmen show up at Allah's pearly gates with a dismantled jewish deli -- "here's Hamid -- you just have to scrape him off this stuff and stick him in a jar with his roomful of virgins."

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Sign In or Register to comment.