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Were our Founding Fathers Christian with a fervent

4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
Were our Founding Fathers Christian with a fervent love for the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Or were they primarily Deists, who only acknowledged the existence of a distant, impersonal god?

Patrick Henry: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here."

George Washington: His personal prayer book, written in his own handwriting, declares continual fidelity to the Lord Jesus Christ: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful and loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day."

John Marshall: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly devout man."

The Continental Congress, on September 11, 1777, recommended and approved that the Committee of Commerce "import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or elsewhere," because of the great need of the American people and the great shortage caused by the interruption of trade with England by the Revolutionary War.

John Adams: On March 6, 1789, President Adams called for a national day of fasting and prayer so that the nation might "call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgression, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience. . ."

John Quincy Adams: "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." (July 4, 1821)
John Jay: First Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court: "Unto Him who is the author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved Son."

Patrick Henry: In a letter to his sister Anne: "My heart is full. Perhaps I may never see you in this world. O may we meet in heaven, to which the merits of Jesus will carry those who love and serve Him."

George Mason: "Father" of the Bill of Rights; "My soul I resign into the hands of my Almighty Creator, whose tender mercies are all over His works, who hateth nothing that He hath made, and to the justice and wisdom of whose dispensations I willingly and cheerfully submit, humbly hoping from His unbounded mercy and benevolence, through the merits of my blessed Savior, a remission of my sins".

James Madison: "Chief Architect" of the U. S. Constitution, wrote in the margin of his Bible, "Christ's Divinity appears by St. John chapter XX, 2; 'And Thomas answered and said unto Him, my Lord and my God!' Resurrection testified to and witnessed by the Apostles, Acts IV, 33."

The First Act of Congress following their agreement of the precise wording of the First Amendment (Congress shall make no law concerning the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...) was to ask President Washington to declare a national day of fasting and prayer!

Constitution of the State of Delaware: Art. XXII Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust... shall...make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit: "I, do profess faith in God the Father and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."

United States Supreme Court: Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892, 143 US 457, "These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation." (p.471) [This U. S. Supreme Court opinion includes a lengthy and detailed record of the historic evidences of America's Christian heritage.]




When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....

Comments

  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It does not matter one bit to me whether our founding fathers were Christians or not. What DOES matter to me is that they stated that our freedoms were endowed by our CREATOR. This "CREATOR" could be interpreted as Buddha, Vishnu or Allah. It doesn't really matter how it is interpreted. What matters is that our founding fathers recognized that our freedoms were endowed by a higher being and that no man can take that away.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The point being made is that many of the founding fathers were
    indeed Christians and not deists as the revisionists teach. Good information for the upcoming 4th of July. Thanks 4GodandCountry.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I still say that no where in the consitiution or ammendments does it say "separation of church and state.

    "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion,"

    Meaning the state or government could not make a national religion, or mandate a religion.

    No where does it say the supreme court has the power to define what is religion , or where it may be practiced.

    And for the courts to allow one ATHIEST, to shove his agenda down the throats of the majority is assinine..

    LR

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thunderbolt and 4GodandCountry...you just can't let a sleeping dog lie can you? If your aim is to discredit my claim that SOME of our founding fathers were Deists,you are WRONG my friends.You should also include Thomas Jefferson,Ben Franklin,and Thomas Payne in your list of founding fathers.They were indeed Deists.But as usual,you skirt the issue,only presenting SOME of the facts.I really expected better of a scholars such as yourselves.All of the facts must be revealed if a truly educated theory is to be presented.I have never been called a "revisionist" before...is that bad or just different? In your view,was Martin Luther a revisionist?..Signed,Bushy the radical,revolutionist revisionist.

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.

    Edited by - Bushy AR on 07/02/2002 16:28:42
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why are a very few people so upset with the word GOD. We hear a
    lot worse language on T.V. and movies and few complaints. Is it
    just to make big thing for themselves. If so, burn all your money
    that says "in God we trust" as a deminstration. Or better yet
    just give it away.
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    I still say that no where in the consitiution or ammendments does it say "separation of church and state.

    "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion,"

    Meaning the state or government could not make a national religion, or mandate a religion.

    LR

    Sorry to disagree classic95.
    It is very important that when deciding what the first amendments religion clause means, you have to read the entire clause.
    I am certain that the founders did not write the firstamendment to mean "the STATE or government could not make a national religion or mandate a religion"
    You are half right-the government(fed) could not make or mandate a national religion-but the first amendment does not prohibit the individual states from doing so. As a matter of fact, a few states at the founding of the Union collected taxes for the church, and had a state religion. If the states were able to "freely exercise" their religious beliefs during the founding of this country, one would be hard pressed to say that the 1st amendment prohibits religious exercise on the state level. None of these states were doing anything unconstitutional, because the states were free to decide religious issues on their own, without interference from the federal government.
    Might make more sense if reading the religious clause IN ITS ENTIRETY:
    "Congress shall make no law establishing religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF"
    I have mentioned this many times to members of the "se[eration of church and state" gang, but they choose to ignore the "or prohibit the free exercise thereof" they have to ignore it in order to say that their doctrine is constitutional. Unfortunately for them, ignoring parts of the constitution does not make ones actions constitutional.
    Hypothetical: A state has a plaque with the ten commandments in there state capital building.
    Is this a violation of the first amendment? Lets see
    Congress shall make no law establishing religion- Is congress establishing a religion? No, the state is establishing religious principles.
    Is the state free to establish religious principles as they see fit, without interference from the federal government? Yes.
    Congress shall make no law... PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF" Is Congress not allowing a state to have a plaque on there state capital building "prohibiting the free exercise of religion"? I do not see how you can say that the federal government banning religion on a state level as being constitutional. Quitethe contraryt, it is unconstitutional, for it prohibits the free exercise of religion. The 1st amendment specifically tells congress to stay out of the religion business-it makes no provision for banning the states from having religion, it is a limitatiuon on congress.
    The federal government ordsering a state to remove a religious plaque is about as unconstitutional as you can get.

    "The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
    -James Madison
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What we have here is freedom from religious persecution, or freedom to have no religion if you like. The principles the founders used to create the constitution went out of their way NOT to create a system that insisted Americans adopt any particular system of beliefs. All you are doing by insisting on junk like this as we approach the great "Melting Pot" holiday is be divisive. Too bad you are so uncomfortable about it all that you have to keep on bringing it up. If you'd like to divide the gun rights people, you are doing a pretty good job -- all you have to do is insist that a lot of your personal dogma has to go with it. Do you realize how paranoid you must sound to any of our Jewish gun rights members? You would do better to put a cork in it for a while, if that doesn't ruffle your evangelist sensibilities too badly. There are a lot of non-Christian Americans who are going to celebrate this nation right along with us in the next few days.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can we all just get along?

    Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know for certain who was a Christian and who was not and, to me, it is not an important issue to aggressively debate. What I do feel is important is the fact that these guys, our Founding Fathers, were humbled by the concept of a greater power and were blessed with a divine type wisdom and good fortune (circumstances) which enabled them to forge our great nation.

    Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offeror: No one is talking ONLY about Christainity. God is the God.
    No matter in what usual religion. And no matter what called. But
    most religions still believe in a God. It just happened that in WW 2
    my Batallion had a Prodestant Chaplin (3rd Bn.) one other had a
    Catholic Chaplin, other Bn. had a Jewish Chaplin. What ever we could
    get to was great. Most times I did not make services of my own faith,
    but was happy to have a service when I could make it of any faith.
    Yes, I attended all services of any faiths when possible. All belived
    in God. Athiests in foxholes, ????? Very few after a while.
    Maybe things have changed in a new and liberal society where God
    is not allowed in schools, and you like what happenens in schools.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was taught the founding fathers were Christian. That said there's not sense in arguing. What should matter today is; Where is Christ in my life? If George Washington and our founding fathers were Christian then we'll see them again but only if we have accepted Jesus as saviour. Seems the only time some people believe in God is when they take his name in vain. Again, the point is, where do you and I stand with God?
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    1911A1 --
    Sounds reasonable to me, but there are those here who seem compelled to take issue with anything but the most narrow "party line." You'll find you are a liberal around here.... Heheheh!

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680
    edited November -1
    I've been reading these posts,and listening to people on ALL side of this issue,and I'm just as divided about the legal aspects as I've ever been.
    But this I know for sure:
    The God I believe in is merciful,and loving.
    The most heinous things happen in this world for a reason,and
    I am not so weak in my faith that it is threatened by wheather"under
    God" is in the pleadge of allegence or not,or if "In God we trust"
    in on our currency or not.
    My faith,is my faith, and no ammount of government intervention will
    take that away from me and my family.
    Leave "under God" in ,or don't leave it in.It will have no bearing
    on MY relationship with God.

    www.waveformwear.com
    fighting censorship...with an attitude
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree that any God worth having is loving and caring, and I find equally petty the legalism which obsesses some of those who rely solely on an interpretation of spiritual law as well.

    One kind of legalism is as abhorent and unimportant to the individual's relationship with the Creator as the other. "Where I stand with God" is not for anyone else to judge, because they would certainly be in error -- even a translator of the good book we like to refer to for spiritual inspiration from time to time could not determine, from a distance, where I stand with God or He with me. That would be a fool's exercise indeed.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - offeror on 07/03/2002 01:01:55
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    Bushy, I have read many of your previous posts reguarding the founding fathers and have never once seen you give reference to the facts that I have posted at the forfront of this particular thread. I am merely stating the facts. If you are so worried about whole truths then why have you neglected to tell the whole story in your previous addresses. You sound hypocritical by attacking me for doing that which you do on a regular basis. I didn't post this to start some long drawn out pissing match with you. Frankley, I could give a damn what you think. I posted this because it was important to me that the other side of the argument be heard, the fact remains, the MAJORITY, of the founding fathers were christians and that is and remains to be what this nations constitution and laws were based upon. Take offense if you'd like, but not with me, I am merely the messenger delivering the truth...

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BushyAR: I never mentioned your name. Getting a little paranoid
    there? Revisionists are those who rewrite historical facts into
    PC pablum.
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry and Thunderbolt ...read about Thomas Jefferson...read about Ben Franklin...read about Thomas Payne..PLEASE....apart from that I could care less what you think too,but I will not try to convert you either!And I will not say that "my way is the right way" because frankly,who knows? I am just amused at all the preaching that goes on here and I question most everything...I refuse to have someone else tell me how to worship my God. End of story...have a nice life!

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thunder --
    Revisionists can also be those who can only read information through agenda-colored glasses.

    You see everything through a filter that just doesn't exist in the minds of many other Christians, let alone members of other groups.

    I don't think that's a good thing. Obviously, you do. End of story.

    I'd say it was Bushy getting on YOUR nerves, but then I'm just an objective observer. Trouble with you is, you don't know when you're getting whupped in a debate among equals. Stir, stir.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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