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Stupid gun question

Gene B.Gene B. Member Posts: 892 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 2002 in General Discussion
Can guns shoot in outerspace? I dont mean inside of a spaceship, but outside in space.
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    concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't think so since the gunpowder in the cartridge needs oxygen to combust, and there isn't any in space.

    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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    leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I rekon that if the cartridge was air tight so it had its own supply of oxygen in it, then you could. It would propel the shooter back just as fast as the bullet going forward though. And the bullet would travel forever in a straight line until it was effected by some planets gravity field and hit something.

    Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
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    simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994 ✭
    edited November -1
    We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
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    the loveable rat...the loveable rat... Member Posts: 969 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    force of accelleration of the bullet on you would not affect you to the same speed(F=ma), your mass being different...if bullet and you weighedthe same-be propelled at the same speed(1/2 the speed of the bullet alone)in opposite directions. gravity is already affecting bullet- always, all the time...but probably weakly and for a long time to come- but definitely not "straight" as math defines...(i think maybe o2 present in gunpowder may be enough, as solid fuel rockets work, i think...). somethings wrong w/ typing here(i'm losing letters as i edit)so try to overlook typos...

    "let not your work smack of the trowel, nor your words cause a blow from one either..."
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    IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting question . . . thought provoking . . . thanks for posting it.

    At the moment the primer fires, the cartridge is roughly airtight, so there must be enough oxygen in the space to sustain some combustion. Don't know if there would be enough to allow all the powder to burn, or even to drive the projectile all the way through the barrel. On the other hand, it's my understanding from another thread that the Seals do have specially-adapted Glocks which can be fired underwater and certainly there is no more gaseous oxygen there than in a vacuum.

    I can think of at least one type that certainly could be fired in these circumstances - those using CO2 or compressed air for propulsion. And perhaps the Gyrojet rocket types, if the propellant supplied it's own source of oxygen.

    Lee's comment about Newton's law & recoil is definitely on point; in the immediate absence of gravity, the effects of recoil would be rather spectacular - and likely humorous. The projectile would continue to travel until its momentum was stopped - incrementally - by impacts with space debris of various magnitudes; space is not a pure vacuum, there are gas molecules and more solid materials ranging from dust particles to much larger objects which would eventually take their toll . . . to say nothing of gravity fields, again, over time.
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    GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    But the nice thing is that you shouldn't need ear plugs!
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    woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The chemicals that make up gun powder include an oxidator. I.E. Potassium nitrate in black powder. When heated by the primers ignition give off oxygen.

    Woods

    How big a boy are ya?
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    oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lookin' at ole leeblackman's answer here, for a minute er two I thought he might have solved my missing problem. Then I realized it would maybe take a billion years or so for the bullet to find itself a planet to hit. I figger I'll prolly hit sumptin here on earth by that time if I keeps tryin'.
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,013 ******
    edited November -1
    If you fired a gun in space, it WOULD fire. The bullet would exit the muzzle and theoretically continue at that same velocity forever unless it encountered an obstacle or gravitational field.

    If you don't think cartridges will work in the vacuum of space, due to the lack of oxygen, try shooting one under water. Make sure it is a gun you don't like much.

    M-80 firecrackers work underwater.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn, how do you know M-80's work under water? Do you cheat while bass fishing?
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,960 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn would never use M-80's for fishing! Dynamite works a lot better!
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    varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dano,If I was in outer space, And something knocked on the door.I wont a gun.

    A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
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    instrumentofwarinstrumentofwar Member Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pardon the ignorance, but one "dumb" question begets another....

    Nunn, you stated in your reply that if you fired a gun underwater make sure it's one you don't like. Just wondering about this. Is that due to corosive materials? I would have thought an extremely thorough cleaning would have gotten the job done. Does this apply to wheelguns as well as semi-auto's?



    Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed

    Edited by - instrumentofwar on 04/29/2002 17:33:17
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    kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now wait a minute here!

    If you can't get one on an airoplane how the heck are you going to get one on a space shuttle? smile
    big smile
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    approve
    disapprove
    question


    =================================
    Sometimes the most obvious, is the most elusive!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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    JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The answer to this question should be fairly obvious. IF the powder did not contain its own oxygen, how could it combust in the closed environment of the case and bore? The tiny amount of oxygen in the case would be gone in a millisecond, and the combustion would stop with the bullet a tiny distance out of the case, if that far. The answer already given is that gun powder makes its own oxygen as it burns.

    As far as firing under water, the reason the poster says it should not be a gun you like is not because of corrosion (water will not hurt a gun if not allowed to sit for a period of time), but rather because the water in the barrel will tend to act like a solid plug and the barrel may burst on some guns. If you ever did a belly flop, you know how "hard" water can be! Glocks (at least 9x19 ones) are known as one gun that can stand being fired under water without the barrel bursting. In fact, Glock makes a special firing pin designed to function under water and not be cushioned by the water resistance in the firing pin recess.
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    njretcopnjretcop Member Posts: 7,975
    edited November -1
    Where is Judge Dread when you need him?

    -Charlie

    "It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com
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    niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's a bad idea to fire a gun underwater because the pressure would be too great in the chamber/barrel when the gun fires. It could result in a kB! Or similar.



    My gun is prettier than yours, and it's a Glock!
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    Gene B.Gene B. Member Posts: 892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What other guns are Designed to shoot underwater? Or just what guns can shoot underwater?
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    MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok.....I'll bite........WHY would a gun be designed to shoot underwater?

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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    sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I remember reading in a magazine where the rooskies had an
    AK variant that was made to fire underwater,,the bullets
    were like small spears,,the magazines were extra long to
    accept this ammo,,,,,no really,,,,,I think I read it in SOF,,
    the long slender bullets traveled through the water better,,


    "No dear, this isn't a new gun,,I've had this one for quite a long time,,honest,,"
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    wipalawipala Member Posts: 11,068
    edited November -1
    There used to bea revolver designed to fire little spears underwater.
    It looked like a pepperbox but uses a case based on the 357 I think.
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    twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Of Course....spearGUNS hahahahahahaha
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    RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is why my back-up gun is a Ray Gun.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    spn05j5e04xq.gif


    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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    RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The answer is Yes, guns will fire in outer space....(but your bullet tips will begin to melt.) That's why alien worlds are secretly behind the anti-gun movement, they fear our guns could penetrate thin skinned space craft.....(I could be wrong, but prove it....)
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    varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The aliens have been keeping a eye on the trees being mowed down in the North East.They fear the enemey is at there gates.:p

    A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been building spearguns for several years. The problems with water is the density. No matter what kind of energy the projectile starts with the resistance of the water slows it down to energy that is no use to pentrate fish after fifteen feet. A bullet in ineffective after 10 feet of travel in water. The chosen and proved method of hurling a projectile underwater-rubber bands. And test fireing a rubber band powered spear gun above water- spear shaft pentrated two pieces 3/4" plywood, and side of garage (1" thick plaster) 15' of garage, another side of garage (1" thick plaster) and was stopped by attached cable.
    No it was not my garage. This happened before I started building them. Rubber bands are 5/8 thickness special tubing (4). This is what it takes to pentrate a grouper or black sea bass.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IF A ROUND WILL FIRE IN UNDERWATER IT WILL FIRE IN SPACE.THE GLOCK WILL FIRE UNDERWATER BUT GLOCK STRONGLY RECCOMENDS THAT YOU DO NOT FIRE THEIR GUNS UNDERWATER.IT CREATED AN INTENSE HYDROSTATIC SHOCK TO THE BARREL.IF YOU FIRE A GLOCK UNDERWATER THEN I WOULD IMAGINE THAT A SIG OR HK WOULD FIRE UNDERWATER ALSO SINCE THEY ARE APPX THE SAME QUALITY.THE POWDER MAKES ENOUGH OF ITS OWN OXYGEN THAT ATMOSPHERE IS NOT A PROBLEM

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
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    sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ummm,,eerrrr,,nobody else but me see that article on the underwater AK? It was for the Russian equivalent of our S.E.A.L. teams,,,,they said that 15 feet was the limit to effectiveness,,,Oh' I get it,,there are several of you that seen it but you want me to look stupid,,,well it's working

    "No dear, this isn't a new gun,,I've had this one for quite a long time,,honest,,"
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    SixStringerSixStringer Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Back in the day (middle school I think) we were givin a list of tools and asked which of these tools we would want on the moon. A hand gun was one of them, but, naturally noone picked it. We compared our list to the list Nasa published. THe NASA list noted that a hand gun would be a useful system of propulsion. If NASA has thought it through, it must be true :p
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    Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    What I don't understand is why you would ask a stupid gun a question? I would rather ask one of those 'smart' guns we have been hearing about.

    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
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    SpotterSpotter Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    Way back when, mid 90's or so, I was at the SOF convention
    in Vegas. This was when it was held at the Sands.. I think or
    the Sahara. At any rate, it's now been demolished but it was the
    casino the 'ratpack' made famous.

    Making a short story long, it had a very nice pool in the bungelow area and I got see a 1911 .45 go through a couple of clips
    underwater. Yeah-no kidding.

    There was a bunch of SOF'ers hanging out in one of the rooms, and they got to talking about shooting guns underwater, so this big hairy-chested monster came over to our room, door was open, and asked our opinion on it. I was sharing a room with 3 other jarheads and after cracking open a complimentary beer for him, we got to talking about it. About 30 minutes or so later, his companions, some hard looking dudes came by and said they were gonna find out. Needless say, seeing someone shoot a pistol underwater was top-notch entertainment
    for us.

    We got to the pool, nobody around, it wasn't even lighted just
    dark and quiet. The weather was balmy, 70's or so, so the guy
    jumps in and so do a few others. He starts lecturing about
    'gun safety' regarding firing a pistol or firearm underwater.
    Going by his lecture, I got the impression he was some sort of
    former military, probably Korea or Vietnam, or both. There's a
    certain way military instructors bob their heads, move their hands,
    and put emphasis on words as they talk, I doubt it can be faked
    so that's my take on him.

    He slides a clip into the 1911, jacks the slide and holds it
    underwater until he is certain all air is removed. Which of
    course, is what he says; "make sure all air is removed". He fires
    the round, water roils around and one of the audience dives down
    and comes back with an intact .45 bullet. Judging from my angle
    he fired the length of the pool, into the deep end, and I don't
    think the bullet traveled more than 15 or so feet.

    He does it again, another guy dives in and picks it up. No noise, but he probably made the water taste funny. This went on for a bit, some guys actually doing the firing and I retired before they did so I don't know if the pistol blew up or not. I didn't hear any ambulances and the crew showed up for breakfast, so I don't think anything
    happened.

    Personally, I'd rather kiss a rattlesnake than to risk losing a
    hand or a pistol. I'm kind of wondering if I should have said anything
    on the chance someone would try it. Here's my disclaimer, do it at
    your own risk.
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