In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Illegal aliens on hunts near the Mexican border

steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
edited February 2002 in General Discussion
Was on another thread about hunting near the border and ConcealedG36 was surprised to hear that we see illegal aliens that have crossed the border during the hunts. The common way of hunting that open terrain is with high powered (20-45)spotting scopes and yes from time to time you spot them. The Border Patrol is all over the place with helicopters, planes and trucks (and in one area a huge stationary balloon with ground searching radar) but their are so many illegals and so many square miles that they cant hope to catch but a small percentage of them. The Border Patrol catches so many near major roads and towns that they rarely venture out into the open desert.(where we hunt.) Most of the people crossing are honest hard working people. There is little to fear from them as they try hard to avoid you. My friends fathers who hunted here years ago tell stories of food or drink missing from their coolers and dollars or pesos left to cover the cost. Ranchers near the border have problems with property destruction and have far less tolerance for them. To me it just adds to the excitement of hunting the border.
«1

Comments

  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Steve, much of what you say is true. The magnitude is greater than you guess, I'll bet. We hunt javelina in the SW corner of New Mexico, and stay at a lodge in AZ. In December of 1999 the Border Patrol/INS "interdicted" (that means caught) over 10,000 illegals in Chochise County, AZ alone. In the canyons of the Peloncillo Mtns. where we hunt there are well worn trails strewn with rubber sandals, bits of clothing, and polyester jacket insulation, along with cans, diapers and the assorted flotsam left by many many people moving through rough contry without appropriate shoes and clothes. Increasingly, these same routes are being used by drug mules. They are less nice people, frequently armed. We no longer hunt without carrying sidearms as well as rifles. You can't blame people for wanting a better life, that is how most of our ancestors got here, but this is a flood of huge proportions. I think it will stop only if we help our neighbors to the south find a way to better lives at home.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He Dog, some amazing numbers, I was hunting near Arivaca and saw the well worn trails there too. Hunted a little knoll 1 mile from the border near a cattle trough supplied by a windmill and found an area littered with hundreds of articles of discarded clothing. My guess its where they lighten their loads before moving on. I agree with you the only way to stop it is to help their countries economies and create jobs for them at home.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have seen them setting along side the road to Arivaca more than once. Lots of Border Patrol there as well. While it may add some interest to the hunt, I suspect it also disturbs game as well and have some impact on the changing locations of javelina in the areas we hunt.
  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dang, I guess I never realized just how out-of-control the situation is in the Southwestern U.S. Up here in the North (Michigan) we too are bordered by another country (Canada, of course), but I have never once seen any illegal aliens trying to sneak across. Granted, there probably aren't a whole lot of Canadians looking to get in illegally and the Great Lakes add a whole lot of difficulty to the equation. But, still, I see Border Patrol agents in boats on the Detroit River and all the Great Lakes when fishing. And, I have seen them driving around in vehicles on land, particularly in areas where there isn't more than a few hundred yards separating the U.S. and Canada (near Grosse Ile, for those of you familiar with SE Mich).Is the problem that the gov't doesn't want to spend the kind of $$ necessary to stop this? I mean, if you have enough border patrol agents couldn't this tide be turned? Also, when you see these people sneaking in do you alert the authorities? Would they take action if you do/did?I'm still amazed..G36
    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I disagree that the only way to stop it is to help boost the economies of poorer countries. Is the United States now supposed to play a role as world economic development association? Other countries have to be responsible for their own economic well-being.We could easily stop all the illegal immigration by stationing our Armed Forces along our borders.If we, as a country, are incapable of securing our country's borders against this illegal immigrant threat, how would we ever be able to stop an armed, agressive invasion?
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ConcealedG36, I dont think theres any way to control it. There's too much land and too many people. It would take drastic measures, huge fences or walls and minefields or draft all young people at 18 yrs and station them there. And I dont think that would stop them all either. There seems to be a lack of accurate information available to these people. I was on vacation in Cozumel Mexico and one of the guys on the dive boat and I were talking. When he found out I was from Arizona he asked me about people "hunting illegals" (his words). That was at a time when some Arizona ranchers were patroling the border and arresting illegals at gunpoint. I explained what I had read in my newspapers. Then he told me what he had read was that it was open season and sanctioned by the U.S. government. I told him that the government had actually increased patrols and equipment in that area so that the ranchers would stop.(thats when they put in the balloon with the ground search radar and roadblocks on the highway.) Im not sure he believed me though.
  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to agree with a few of the previous posts. It my not be "legal" for them to cross, but you sure can't blame them. I live in Tucson, AZ, about 45 mintues north of the border, and have seen my share of illegals. Heck, I got a couple that married into my family. One thing's for sure though. There sure are a lot of transients and drunkards out here, on every street corner and supermarket, asking for change. I've seen a LOT of them during my time here, but I NEVER saw a Mexican one. They all have the jobs.They take the jobs that many of the local transients feel is "beneath them" and have every excuse not to work.I'd rather have a town full of hardworking illegals than a town full of lazy bums, living off of yours and my dime.
    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    niklasal:YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT ??? You must be of Mexican decent.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No he's not kidding. I agree with his post 100%. The vast majority of illegals work very hard, they arent looking for a handout at all. And since your going to ask. No Im not Hispanic.
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Walk into your local welfare office some time and see what the ethnic background is of most people doing business there. Here in western Washington it's almost exclusively Mexican. Hell, you can't even get a job working in the welfare office unless you speak Spanish.Around here there are indeed some hard-working folks from Mexico. There are also a huge number of them supporting themselves by selling drugs. They damn sure didn't buy their little low-rider BMW and Lexus cars from the money they made picking cucumbers. The hard-working ones can't support their big families on what they earn working their agricultural laborer jobs so they're still drawing public assisstance checks, food stamps, free daycare and all the other social programs that the rest of us get to pay for.We don't need any more people immigrating to this country to take advantage of the lucrative government dole.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.[This message has been edited by Lowrider (edited 02-25-2002).][This message has been edited by Lowrider (edited 02-25-2002).]
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nor am I, but they are telling it straight. These people come here and work. Often living several to a small apartment and sending most of their money home to support their families. Eventually, some return home and others get their families moved up here. 90% of the street people here in Albuquerque are Anglos also.
  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Lowrider I live about 2 hours from the border in California. When I was a boy I built custom homes with my high school budies. Now the high school kids can't find the work because the illegals have taken it over. The sh## in my avocado grove sleep in the brush and out number us natives in my home town. This has got to stop and stop now! Why is it our responsibility to take care of all the poor people in the world? Sorry but this topic make me fureours.Jim
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As you can plainly see, commentary from our most educated posters!
    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I thought the idea that illegal immigrants "steal jobs from honest Americans" went out with the dinosaurs....But I guess I was wrong.Anyone who believes that must not have taken Economics 101First off, less and less companies are willing to take the risk of hiring illegals because the Labor Dept. and INS are becoming more miltant in their investigation of suspected harborers of illegal aliens.No profits if the doors are boarded shut.As for legals, it's:More positions filled at a lower wage=more money for the companies=corporate expansion=more jobs available.It's a symbiant cycle.Illegal jobs, on the other hand, are not good. If you want to see less illegal immigrants, and more legal immigrants, the INS and Labor Department needs to crack down on these businesses that hire illegals.And I'm sure someone will tell me how young and stupid and wrong I am, but I dont care.
  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well fellas, after reading some of the pros and cons I have to agree with Lowrider. I am not in any way against allowing LEGAL immigrants into this country, my mother is not a U.S. citizen. BUT, those people that choose to come to the U.S. ILLEGALLY don't deserve s%%t! Why should our tax dollars and jobs go to people that aren't even supposed to be here? Aren't we, as a country, trying to get rid of all the illegal middle-eastern folks right now? If you forget about their ethnicity for a second, isn't this the same problem? Look, I know a whole bunch of people from Bosnia, Russia, Mexico and elsewhere that work very hard. And, since they came here legally I say more power to them. Yes, they work very hard for minimal wages. But, again, they are here LEGALLY! There is a big difference there. If nothing else, they pay taxes and help support our system. The ones that come in and work for cash are literally depleting our system of the $$ that you and I pay into it. And, let me tell you, I pay a WHOLE LOT of taxes. I don't appreciate it when those dollars are, in essence, being used to support people from other countries.Now, I do think that there are a lot of citizens that are too lazy to work. That is entirely another issue. It is too bad that our society has deteriorated into this mess. In Detroit you'll find just as many losers, and they claim that the white man took all their jobs. The excuse is the same, regardless of the scapegoat. The fact is, they COULD find something if they were A) willing to work for whatever they could get B) got some education and got off their lazy *.Again, these are two separate issues. If we continue to allow illegal aliens in, virtually unchecked, we might as well kiss our fragile social security system goodbye.Just my $0.02, but what do I know?G36
    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, Well, Well, I guess that some people can't see what's happening from their house so it must not be happening at all. I understand your point and your jokes do make me smile a bit. But people do still hire illegals and they do take a great portion of the work from our youth in the area that I live. I was expecting the "lazy white boy wouldn't do the work because it is too hard" statements. I do not believe it. It was not too hard for my friends or me and if the wages were not drug down by cheap help then I think our kids would work in these types of jobs. I apologize for getting off subject but it's fun to vent durring lunch.Jim
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Im not saying that its right or wrong, Im just pointing out that what the government is doing now is the least expensive way to go. You cant stop the tide of illegal immigrants without a massive amount of money and manpower. How would this country react to a draft to patrol our southern border?
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    We don't need to implement the peace-time draft to secure the borders. There are military installations all over the country, full of troops, who could be reassigned. I'll bet 20,000 soldiers could accomplish the task.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've never been in the military but have read about WW2. One division 16,000 troops would control about 5 miles of front line. Of course not all 16,000 were on the line. But even here you would need cooks and clerks and such. Also even at that the lines were penetrated by German patrols. Of course technology has advanced (infrared, listening sensors etc.) But with a border from the Pacific to Texas Id say it would take hundreds of thousands at least.
  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not saying that Mexicans nationwide are hardworking, but the ones that I have seen around here have been. I agree that the job situation IS a symbiant cycle. Yes, it does take SOME jobs from our youth, but unless the every immigrant spoke fluent English there will always be work for a teenager in the US.By the way GrandWizard, I am of German decent.
    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
  • 25-0625-06 Member Posts: 382 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, there are some hard working immigrants, legal and illegal. What we are seeing in SW Kansas, is, that after they are here awhile, the churches show them the paper work and they start getting the food stamps and other hand outs. And Yes, I believe they are lowering the standards of middle class Americans because they will work for less money. You will not find a white worker on a work over rig in the oil fields anymore. The dairies and hog farms are worked by Mexicans, and every other labor intensive job is being taken by them. The biggest gripe is that the crime rates have went up dramitically in the last 5-10 years as well.We used to never lock our house, Now we have gun safes, dead bolts, and all the sheds are locked as well. And, they are the no drivingest bunch of idiots I have ever seen. Have a wreck with one and they have no insurance, no drivers license and no current tag, and the law lets them go, and our insurance rates go up. We have to hire extra aids in school because they can not speak English. I could go on and on about our friends from south of the border, but I think it is high time the insanity of legal and illegal immigration is stopped.
  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i have tried to work the "young white youth" but they never last. work's to hard, it's to hot-cold ect...when i was in my late teens working lobor type jobs, i didn't care for the mexicans, but time and experience took care of that feeling. i resisted hiring mexican for years, but i saw the light. they don't make any less than the "legal" guys and they are hard working and loyal.....
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was working on a business deal with a restaurant/bakery in northern NM a few years back. My partner and I went in to look over the place and decide if we wanted to get involved with these guys. We got back to the kitchen and it was all illegals. The owner stated that they were the only folks he would hire for his kitchen because they show up at 4 AM and worked their * off until 4 PM, all live together, aren't drunks and drug addicts, and send nearly every penny they make back to Mexico. In comparison, he said he only hired college kids to do the waiting and the turnover rate was 2-3 per month. They made dang good bread, but we didn't partner with him. If a pale green truck would have pulled into that place, I bet his kitchen would have been empty pretty fast. ;-)
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Deny it all you want. Tell me all the stories you want about poor starving Pedro. Spout more liberal nonsense about how illegals are good for the economy. Tell me again how they are just filling jobs Americans won't do. Tell me how they deserve to be here.YADA YADA YADA. I am not against immigration, just illegal immigration.

    A Brief History of Immigrationfrom the discovery and settlement of the United States to the destructive flood of immigration todayMany millions of people have come to our shores since 1492 when Columbus discovered this vast undeveloped, uncivilized, and virtually empty land. They, and their offspring, have filled the land with more than 265,000,000 people, causing present-day patriots to question how many more this land can absorb and support with its diminishing natural resources, urban blight, overcrowded schools, and undereducated children.. In order to better understand the immigration problems of today, we need to understand the history of the founding of the United States. Explorers and settlers were the first to follow Columbus. Most of the Spanish and Portuguese went to Mexico, Central and South America; most of the French migrated to Canada; and the English, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Dutch, and Germans settled in what became the 13 original colonies. They wrote the Declaration of Independence, fought the Revolution, fashioned the Constitution with its Bill of Rights, and fixed the cultural, economic, and political patterns of the country. The government and society they created came from their own Northern and West European cultural and political background. It was a limited government. Sovereign power was held by the people themselves, not by a king or special elite, and not by the state. The people, through their own representatives, made the laws and shaped the destiny of the nation. It was an English speaking nation with free institutions based upon Anglo-Saxon culture and English common law.Our Founding Fathers did not encourage unlimited immigration. George Washington felt that immigration should be limited to "useful mechanics and some particular descriptions of men or professions."Thomas Jefferson saw the new government as a unique combination of the freest elements of English law and political custom. He was concerned that unrestricted immigration of peoples from lands unacquainted with the principle of representative government might undo the careful work of our Founding Fathers. "Yet," he said prophetically, "from such we are to expect the greatest number of immigrants."Even if these immigrants could throw off the principles of the governments they left, Jefferson feared that they would merely pass"from one extreme to the other. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty." He added, "In proportion to their numbers, they will share legislation with us. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp or bias its direction and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent mass."Although opposed to mass immigration, the Founding Fathers did not prevent or discourage it by federal legislation. They left it to the states individually to regulate and control immigration according to their specific needs. Immigration grew at an acceptable and useful rate, and the population rose from 26,000 in 1640 to 2,500,000 in 1775, to 12,866,000 by 1830. Westward expanding America needed able men to work the mines, lay the rails, till the soil, and build the towns, and so during these growing years, immigration was actively encouraged. In 1834, Congress aided Polish exiles to settle in Illinois and Michigan. The Homestead Act of 1862 drew others through cheap land grants. Entrepreneurs advertised abroad for immigrant workers for the expanding mills, mines, factories, and farms.Between 1830 and 1880, a total of 10,189,000 immigrants came to the United States. Of these, 8,989,800 were from Northern Europe, and 654,000 were from Canada and Newfoundland. But immigration brought problems. Chinese were being imported for lewd and immoral purposes as well as for contract labor in the West. The unscrupulous advertised for immigrant workers, not to fill waiting jobs, but to depress wages of American workers.Americans became aware of the growing political power of the newcomers, and as Jefferson had foreseen, many of them seemed to support boss rule rather than free representative processes.Today, the annual tidal wave of over a million immigrants (legal and illegal) is endangering our American way of life. Currently, fewer than 15% of our immigrants come from Europe and share the heritage that made America strong. A majority of today's immigrants are (consciously or unconsciously) undermining our customs, our culture, our language, and our institutions. Instead of remaining in their native lands and emulating the United States, they are descending upon our shores and trying to reshape the United States into the image of the lands they forsook.From the handful of first settlers, our nation has now grown to over 265,000,000 and changed from agriculture and underpopulated acreage to high technology and over-crowded cities.America was and for the moment still is an English-speaking nation with free institutions, free speech, and the freedom to worship. Our ancestors wisely decided that this new nation under God with liberty and justice for all, would have no king and no privileged class! Because of what our forefathers created, and in spite of human frailty, the United States of America has become the greatest nation on earth with the finest tradition of charity the world has ever known. Because America's culture, customs, language, and laws are under assault from foreigners who come to live here and, instead of learning the American way of life, choose to impose their own alien cultures, languages, and institutions upon us, we must review our heritage and understand the need to preserve it, lest America self-destruct through ethnic strife.In the belief that unrestricted immigration from Asia would turn our country's sparsely populated Western states over to domination by Asian people, language, customs, and political thought, the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. (Today, the violent criminal activities of the Chinese Tong gangs, the widespread criminal activities of Chinese alien and drug smugglers, and the espionage at the Los Alamos Research Labs proves the wisdom of our ancestors.)In the earlier part of the 19th Century, industrialization brought dramatic changes in world-wide immigration. Rural people from Northern Europe were taking jobs in home industries or emigrating to farmlands in America, Australia and elsewhere. Wars and revolutions of the last half of the 19th century through the first decades of the 20th century had uprooted peoples all over the world. Literally millions became exiles or refugees fleeing poverty and oppression and the destruction of their homes and seeking entry into a prosperous and peaceful land. Advertisements stressing high wages and freedom of opportunity here in America began to draw larger numbers of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe. In 1880, 73.6 percent of immigration to the United States was from Northern Europe; but by 1920, 59 percent was coming from Southern and Eastern Europe.Americans began to question how many of the teeming impoverished millions the United States could accept. How many could we educate and assimilate into our land without destroying the cohesiveness of our language and culture and customs and laws and institutions? The diversity of these newer immigrants brought problems of education and assimilation. As our forefathers had correctly foreseen, for many immigrants, Americanization was time- consuming, costly and painful. In a growing number of cases the Americanization process didn't take place at all. In the forty year period from 1880 to 1920, legal immigration totaled 23,465,000 more than double the total for the previous fifty years, and by 1920 the U.S. population had increased to 105,710,600. The problems caused by the changing face of immigration during this period brought about many new immigration laws which were eventually codified in the Immigration Act of 1917. This law excluded not only convicts and prostitutes, but also anarchists, contract laborers, those likely to become public charges, and those advocating the overthrow of our government.In 1921 the nation's first immigration law based on national quotas was passed into law; and three years later, in March of 1924, The New York Times editorialized:"The country has a right to say who shall and who shall not come in . .. the basis of restriction must be chosen with a view not to the interest of any group or groups in this country, . . . but rather with a view to the country's best interests as a whole."Unfortunately, the situation changed drastically in the period between the late 1960s and the present. In 1965, liberal forces within the Democratic Party led by Lyndon Johnson's administration and Senator Ted Kennedy railroaded a destructive immigration law through Congress. The 1965 law totally destroyed the checks and balances of the very effective and pro- American McCarran-Walter Immigration Law with the national origins quota system established early in the 20th Century. Under the pre-1965 law, total legal immigration, including foreign spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens, refugees and asylees was annually less than 300,000. Eighty five percent of all immigrants from the early 1920s until the late 1960s were from Europe. Those immigrants were easily assimilated into the American mainstream. Senator Ted Kennedy and his allies in the Johnson administration changed all that with their 1965 immigration law, which has been further liberalized several times. These changes including amnesty for several million illegal aliens have sown the seeds of ethnic strife in America. Today, over 85% of all immigrants to the U.S. are non-European. The great American "melting pot" has begun to melt down.Is there anything that can be done to turn back the clock and undo the damage done to America in the last half of the 20th Century?Unfortunately, no.But we can and must stop any further damage now, lest the United States become "balkanized" torn apart by ethnic conflicts as happened in Yugoslavia.If we don't take action now, the surging flood of legal and illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America will soon form a majority in California and the Southwest. Some of these Latino militants are already organizing to form those states into a new nation called ATZLAN.If and when that happens, these United States will be united no more!
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    GrandWizard,First of your history lesson is a little distorted. Second define legal. What is legal? The reason I ask this is because legality applies to whatever law you allow yourself to be governed by. America was FAR from being 'uncivilized and ... empty land.' Thousands upon thousands of native Americans had their land stolen from them by 'immigrants' and I'm sure the native Americans would hardly agree that was 'legal'. The Indians were slaughtered by exposure to our foreign diseases and our better technology. I hardly think you can claim we brought 'civilization' to America. Basically we conquered by force, justified our injustices with our own form of legality, and were responsible for the genocide of nearly the entire American Indian population. History is repetitious...
    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.[This message has been edited by thesupermonkey (edited 02-26-2002).]
  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Monkey Man, When did we start talking about native Americans. We were talking about our friend from the south. You may want to start a new topic to discuss the unjust treatment of the Indians. I would agree with you 100% on that issue but not this one.Jim
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lobo,Basically I'm saying, we stole America, and in turn America is being stolen, it's a cycle...
    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
  • GargamelGargamel Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Personally,I'd take that rifle and make one of those "immigrants" take a sand nap.
  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Monkey,So let's just sit back and watch it happen? The Indians did not give up without a fight...should we?Jim
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stole ? Poor choice of words. I prefer conquered. It has happened throughout history.Survival of the fittest, a basic rule of nature not to be ignored. If you are willing to standby and let it happen then step aside. There are a lot of Americans who won't give up that easily.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GrandWizard of which Klavern?
  • pimpinbitchespimpinbitches Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think illegals are the least of your guys problems.
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm with Lowrider on this one. This white boy could cut cabbages and pick apples with the best of them in his day. The illegals get preference for the agricultural jobs because the farmers don't have to withold taxes & social security.They don't pay into the system but as soon as the season is over they're on the dole one way or another.If you think they're so great. Come to Brockport, NY where they have a festival to welcome the migrants every spring. On some summer evening go down to main street, send your wife or teenage daughter walking down the street and follow from about a block behind. After you see what happens you'll change your mind. The crime rate goes through the roof around here every year from may 1st to the end of october. Can't blame that on the native college kids they aren't here then.If you want to come to my country, fill out the paperwork and pay your taxes, you're more than welcome. But, if you want to come here illegally and f**k the system go to h*llWOODS
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    When it comes to immigrants persuasion I would prefer to see some of the legal ones deported and let some of the illegal ones replace them. The legal ones work the system the illegal ones (at least most of them) just work. I've grown up in an northern agricultural community that depended on the work of migrant workers (legal). In the past 20 years I have seen the trend go from prowd independence to ungrateful dependence.
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    HeDog. Don't even go there. This is an issue of survival. America ?? remember ? I am not against immigration, but you can't just open the doors and let everyone in. There has to be limits placed on how many people can come here every year. The most qualified applicants chosen from the total number should be allowed entry, the rest go home.
  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems to me that many claim that the aliens are taking our jobs...but if we were willing to work as hard as they do for those lower dollars, the jobs wouldn't be offered to them anyway....I have watched some of those guys work, and I'm not sure I could keep up with them. Our "standards of living" have spoiled us. Our unions tell us to strike in resolve for higher wages, till our employers can no longer economically stay in buisiness without driving the prices of their products/services through the roof. I don't support the hiring of illegals, much less the fact that thier wages are draining the dollars from our economy as they are funneled into another country without even being taxed. I must also say, however, I think that our greed for the almighty dollar, and our unwillingness to settle for less, has indeed turned many of us into lazy, fattened sheep. We should learn a valuable lesson from our southern friends, before we so readily despise them for doing what we will not. Now that you've got me going, there is one other issue raised here that I would like to comment on. Language...Illegal or not, if you want to live in this country...speak our language only at all times when in any public place, or when in the presence of anyone outside of your nationality. If you can't speak English, stay home untill you can.
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know the military cant handle it, we have few enough to do the job we have now. If you go the military route you will need to increase the amount of people in the military by about 4 soldiers for every 1/4 mile of border, just to maintain security. That doesnt include the support for those men, like administrative types, medics, etc. That is just my opinion on how many you'd need for a 1/4 mile, I have no facts to back it up, but I feel comfortable with that assessment. I wont get into my personal feelings on immigration, I will only say how I believe you would best stop it. When capturing these illegals take them to Arizona, where I believe they have reinstated the use of chain gangs. Every one of them will be chained to another illegal, watched by a soldier with a gun. Forced to build roads and pick up trash, all by hand. Get caught escaping, and you will be shot. After the stories of this get back to Old Mexico you can bet the tide of immigration will slow dramatically, cause right now they all know if they get caught they will just get sent back. I'm not advocating shooting them, just makeing sure there are extreme consequences for coming across the border illegaly. These men would not be housed well either, as I believe they are being kept in field conditions in Arizona, and thats good * in my book. Oh and by the way, I'm not being prejudiced here, I think they should do the same thing with all of our inmates here in the U.S. Its called 'being held accountable for your actions.'
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mexico is not our friend. Believe it if you want but it just ain't so.Texas Fights Mexico for Water NewsMax.com WiresTuesday, Feb. 26, 2002 AUSTIN, Texas - The Texas attorney general Monday stepped into a long-running dispute over Mexico's failure to fulfill its treaty obligations to release water into the Rio Grande, the vital source of water for farmers and cities along the international border.Attorney General John Cornyn said his Rio Grande Water Rights Task Force would pursue the state's rights and remedies under the 1944 treaty that governs the river. Mexico owes Texas more than 1.4 million acre-feet of water, he said."This is a critical issue that affects the border region of Texas, which depends on the Rio Grande for adequate water supplies," he said. "My legal team will examine every avenue available, both legal and diplomatic, to help ensure that Texans receive the water that Mexico agreed to provide under the 1944 treaty."Mexico is suppose to release a specified amount of water from reservoirs south of the border and Texas officials say the shortage is wrecking the $500 million-a-year agriculture industry in the Rio Grande Valley and threatening critical city water supplies.Gordon Hill, manager of Bayview Irrigation District at Weslaco, said he and several other valley officials met with Cornyn last week to push for the legal action. He said they have been fighting the battle since 1995."We proved that Mexico was intentionally holding back the water in Chihuahua and using it for their own benefit to sell fruits and vegetables and running our farmers out of business," he said in an interview with United Press International.The valley has suffered an economic loss of about $350 million a year and up to 21,000 full and part-time jobs have been lost, Hill said. Mexico has increased its export of fruits and vegetables north by a billion pounds a year, he added."They are using our own water against us," Hill said Monday.'Major Disaster'"Right now our biggest concern is that we won't have the water to meet our obligations, not only to our farmers, but we may not be able to transport the municipal water to our cities. This would be a major disaster for this area."For the past 10 years, Mexico has failed to fulfill its obligations to transfer the amount of water prescribed in the treaty for use by Texas. The treaty requires that one-third of the flow reaching the Rio Grande from five specified tributaries be allotted to the United States, the attorney general said.Mexican officials were not immediately available to comment on the Texas attorney general's latest action. In the past they have said they would honor their treaty obligations and noted that Mexican farmers have also suffered from droughts in recent years along with Texas farmers. Copyright 2002 by United Press International.
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lobo, I'm not saying we should allow it to continue, if you can't come to our country through the means provided and pay your share of taxes, then you shouldn't be here. In the same instance, I'm not willing to shoot some poor sap just because he risks his life and works for almost nothing, only to provide a better life for his family. Does that make me a bad American? Grandwizard, 'Survival of the fittest' does not apply to cognizant beings nor does it justify the slaughter of innocents, theft, rape, and torture. Every thinking being in the world is endowed with a conscience and a sense of morality. That is what distinguishes us from animals. To call genocide anything other than that, dishonors those who fell victim to it. Using your terminology we could say Hitler effectively 'conquered' several million Jews. What can I, as an American, do to help curb the influx of illegal immigrants? I suppose I could buddy up with Gargamel and shoot every hispanic I see near the boarder, how would that be? Would you like me to `conquer' the children as well?The Boarder Patrolling Munkey
    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.[This message has been edited by thesupermonkey (edited 02-26-2002).]
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GrandWizard you lack historical perspective. This is not a matter of survival, it is another bump in the road.
Sign In or Register to comment.