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AR suggestions/questions
toad67
Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
So I am really not an AR guy so to speak however I have wanted to get one for awhile. I haven't got one because I really have no idea as to what style since I don't have an intended use for one other than plincking etc. However a new situation has come into play. I have a new neighbor across the street whose father owns a helicopter. He is really into ariel hunting of pigs and coyotes from his bird. He says that they usually use .223's or such and shotguns with buckshot if they can get close enough. Last weekend they shot 28 pigs on a local damage hunt.
I have an opportunity to go with him almost everytime that he goes out and this has increased my desire to get an AR style rifle. So I am open to suggestions as to style, barrel length, twist rate, etc, etc, etc. I am thinking that some sort of holo sight would be the ticket since a scope in this situation might be a little difficult. I will be back after a bit to read all of your suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Todd
I have an opportunity to go with him almost everytime that he goes out and this has increased my desire to get an AR style rifle. So I am open to suggestions as to style, barrel length, twist rate, etc, etc, etc. I am thinking that some sort of holo sight would be the ticket since a scope in this situation might be a little difficult. I will be back after a bit to read all of your suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Todd
Comments
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
knowing your budget would help immensely.
$0-$1200 or so.........quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
knowing your budget would help immensely.
Can't go wrong with a Stag piston at under $ 1,000.00.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=252434284
Brad Steele
I would go with a 1:9 twist rate on your barrel, that seems to handle the majority of bullet types and weights the best. Also get a flat top upper for your optics.
Eotech makes a great holo sight, but will run you $400-$500. There are alternatives that can save you some $$, and will still perform just fine. Burris and BSA make some descent ones.
The rest is really up to you. There are a ton of mfg'ers out there, so stick with a name you are comfortable with and feel you can depend on. A little research goes a long way. Stay away from Blackthorn.
Building from parts will save you a couple bucks, but buying a complete rifle will usually carry a waranty.
The options are almost endless, and you can usually find a complete rifle that has everything you want on it on GunBroker.
Good luck and have fun gettin' them hogs! Always wanted to hunt from a bird, sounds like a blast.[:D]
If you are willing to spend up to $1200, you can pretty much get whatever you could want. I would think a carbine (16" bbl) with collapsable stock would be ideal for your application. Compact, lightweight, and as accurate as you'll need.
I would go with a 1:9 twist rate on your barrel, that seems to handle the majority of bullet types and weights the best. Also get a flat top upper for your optics.
Eotech makes a great holo sight, but will run you $400-$500. There are alternatives that can save you some $$, and will still perform just fine. Burris and BSA make some descent ones.
The rest is really up to you. There are a ton of mfg'ers out there, so stick with a name you are comfortable with and feel you can depend on. A little research goes a long way. Stay away from Blackthorn.
Building from parts will save you a couple bucks, but buying a complete rifle will usually carry a waranty.
The options are almost endless, and you can usually find a complete rifle that has everything you want on it on GunBroker.
Good luck and have fun gettin' them hogs! Always wanted to hunt from a bird, sounds like a blast.[:D]
quote:
Covered it pretty well, but I'd add a Bushmaster AR optic ready you should be able to buy these anywhere for under $800. I'd also add that the Bushnell T-DOT 1X32 sight under $130 new if you do a little shopping is an excellent buy.
For as little shooting as you would do I'd stay away from the piston guns. They cost more, their heavier, more parts to possible break and NO real advantage. "Peter Kokalis"
If you do some shopping you should be able to find one for around $700 or so. There are a lot of major players out there and they all seem to be near identical in performance as well.
Check on some of the websites like CMMG or CDNN.
Stag 3H .223 upper 16" 1/9 twist chrome lined barrel
Spikes lower with a Rifle Gear lower receiver builders kit.
MAGPUL MOE hand guard, stock and grip.
Around 800.00 invested.
Just built one. Use it mostly for plinking and varmint hunting.
Stag 3H .223 upper 16" 1/9 twist chrome lined barrel
Spikes lower with a Rifle Gear lower receiver builders kit.
MAGPUL MOE hand guard, stock and grip.
Around 800.00 invested.
I didn't know that you could just buy the Stag uppers.
You need to make sure you put a Slide Fire Stock on it [:D]
Yes that's true but that would put him over budget.[;)][;)]
I have them both and when I come home from the range my piston goes into the safe and I spend the next hour cleaning my Bushmaster target.
However, for you purpose it is not important.
Pistons are usually heavier and muzzle heavy offsetting the balance although a few are as light and balanced as a DI (PWS for one)
I suggest a 1/7 twist (no more than 1/8) which will allow the 77gr bullet which IMO the 75-77gr will be advantageous for your intended purpose
The EOTech is a sure bet all others maybe be OK but do not compare. There is also a 3 or 4X magnifier you can mount behind it. The Chinese clones work near as well as the L3 factory magnifier at 1/10th the cost.
Because there are no moving parts or any electronics these clones versions of the magnifiers work very well and many who would never use a cloned EOTech use these clones magnifiers.
Get an AR without sites just a flat top. You can have back up iron sites in your pocket (2 spare AA batteries would do the same thing backing up the EOTech).
There are many mid priced good AR builds but piston ARs are more money than your budget if you want a decent one so Stag, Bushmaster etc are fine.
Stay away from Olympic and DPMS (That should get a flame or two!!)
If you go the the DPMS website you will notice using almost any ammo made voids the warranty, total BS.
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
The definition of ignorant is saying there is no advantage to owning a piston.
I have them both and when I come home from the range my piston goes into the safe and I spend the next hour cleaning my Bushmaster target.
However, for you purpose it is not important.
Pistons are usually heavier and muzzle heavy offsetting the balance although a few are as light and balanced as a DI (PWS for one)
I suggest a 1/7 twist (no more than 1/8) which will allow the 77gr bullet which IMO the 75-77gr will be advantageous for your intended purpose
The EOTech is a sure bet all others maybe be OK but do not compare. There is also a 3 or 4X magnifier you can mount behind it. The Chinese clones work near as well as the L3 factory magnifier at 1/10th the cost.
Because there are no moving parts or any electronics these clones versions of the magnifiers work very well and many who would never use a cloned EOTech use these clones magnifiers.
Get an AR without sites just a flat top. You can have back up iron sites in your pocket (2 spare AA batteries would do the same thing backing up the EOTech).
There are many mid priced good AR builds but piston ARs are more money than your budget if you want a decent one so Stag, Bushmaster etc are fine.
Stay away from Olympic and DPMS (That should get a flame or two!!)
If you go the the DPMS website you will notice using almost any ammo made voids the warranty, total BS.
Wulfmann
Well you tell that to Peter Kokalis he is the premier expert amongst the machine gun crowd and is published in MANY magazines. How many are you published in?????????????
These are his words no distinct advantage of a piston gun over an gas gun. Sure why don't you write him and tell him he's ignorant.
As far as sights, have some type of iron sights on the gun-whether a standard front, or flip up front and rear, make sure that you have them. Murphy was an optimist, and batteries die at the worst times. Flipping sights up is a LOT faster than replacing batteries! Come to think of it, my favorite AR has an EoTech 556 with the irons in the bottom 1/4 or so of the screen, and that works great for me.
Also, think about a mid length forearm. Longer gas tube means the gas has a little more time to cool and pressure to drop. As with the piston argument, do you NEED it? NOT in semi auto as much as full auto. But the longer forarm is very nice to grab, and covers more of the barrel to keep you from burning yourself. And a bayonet fits, which pisses the liberals off a little more......
But it is going to be YOUR rifle. The AR series has enough options that you can make it however YOU want to. Such is the price of freedom.....you must choose what works best for you.
I however VERY much liked the ergonomics of the rifle so I was happy to give the AR's a second look when the piston designs hit the market. After a few years in production...I decided I wanted one. I saved up for a LONG time and got the LWRC (M6A3 in 14.7"). This is an absolutely fantastic weapon and I WILL buy more models when my finances are back in line.
Over 2,500 rounds so far and not a single hiccup.
If that's way out of your price range (and it looks like that's the case) I have heard REALLY good things about the SIG 516 piston rifle and at under 1,400 bucks that a pretty good deal IMO. Perhaps save up and go for the SIG?
There is also the Ruger SR556 but I have heard mixed review about the rifle. I'm told that the early bolt carrier tilt issues have since been resolved, but if it were me I'd stick with the SIG. Just my personal preference. Good luck!
quote:Originally posted by MrM1A1
If you are willing to spend up to $1200, you can pretty much get whatever you could want. I would think a carbine (16" bbl) with collapsable stock would be ideal for your application. Compact, lightweight, and as accurate as you'll need.
I would go with a 1:9 twist rate on your barrel, that seems to handle the majority of bullet types and weights the best. Also get a flat top upper for your optics.
Eotech makes a great holo sight, but will run you $400-$500. There are alternatives that can save you some $$, and will still perform just fine. Burris and BSA make some descent ones.
The rest is really up to you. There are a ton of mfg'ers out there, so stick with a name you are comfortable with and feel you can depend on. A little research goes a long way. Stay away from Blackthorn.
Building from parts will save you a couple bucks, but buying a complete rifle will usually carry a waranty.
The options are almost endless, and you can usually find a complete rifle that has everything you want on it on GunBroker.
Good luck and have fun gettin' them hogs! Always wanted to hunt from a bird, sounds like a blast.[:D]
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by MrM1A1
If you are willing to spend up to $1200, you can pretty much get whatever you could want. I would think a carbine (16" bbl) with collapsable stock would be ideal for your application. Compact, lightweight, and as accurate as you'll need.
I would go with a 1:9 twist rate on your barrel, that seems to handle the majority of bullet types and weights the best. Also get a flat top upper for your optics.
Eotech makes a great holo sight, but will run you $400-$500. There are alternatives that can save you some $$, and will still perform just fine. Burris and BSA make some descent ones.
The rest is really up to you. There are a ton of mfg'ers out there, so stick with a name you are comfortable with and feel you can depend on. A little research goes a long way. Stay away from Blackthorn.
Building from parts will save you a couple bucks, but buying a complete rifle will usually carry a waranty.
The options are almost endless, and you can usually find a complete rifle that has everything you want on it on GunBroker.
Good luck and have fun gettin' them hogs! Always wanted to hunt from a bird, sounds like a blast.[:D]
Well you tell that to Peter Kokalis he is the premier expert amongst the machine gun crowd and is published in MANY magazines. How many are you published in?????????????
These are his words no distinct advantage of a piston gun over an gas gun. Sure why don't you write him and tell him he's ignorant.
Ignorant people get published all the time.[:)]
There are obvious advantages to piston system over a DI system. The two main ones are the receiver stays cooler and the receiver stays cleaner. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that a cooler and cleaner environment will reduce the wear on components.
Absent knowing the full context of Kokalis' statement it doesn't make any sense to call him ignorant. For example, there probably are no distinct advantages if the rifle is used 5 times a year to shoot 20 rounds. If someone wants to unload a Beta C Mag as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, however, there are at least two distinct advantages to the gas piston system, as noted above.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by armilite
Well you tell that to Peter Kokalis he is the premier expert amongst the machine gun crowd and is published in MANY magazines. How many are you published in?????????????
These are his words no distinct advantage of a piston gun over an gas gun. Sure why don't you write him and tell him he's ignorant.
Ignorant people get published all the time.[:)]
There are obvious advantages to piston system over a DI system. The two main ones are the receiver stays cooler and the receiver stays cleaner. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that a cooler and cleaner environment will reduce the wear on components.
Absent knowing the full context of Kokalis' statement it doesn't make any sense to call him ignorant. For example, there probably are no distinct advantages if the rifle is used 5 times a year to shoot 20 rounds. If someone wants to unload a Beta C Mag as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, however, there are at least two distinct advantages to the gas piston system, as noted above.
You are correct but I doubt that Toad will be hunting from a helicopter using a Beta C-Mag or that he will be in any combat situation. I doubt that anyone on this forum will ever be in a combat situation that would require that many rounds where they might melt down a barrel. If I was in the military then I might/would consider the option of a piston upper.
I'm not saying that they don't serve a purpose but for the average shooter he/she doesn't need it. The man stated he has a $1,200 window to work with. If that also includes optics
it rules out all piston driven guns price wise.
When someone comes on here and states that he has x amount of dollars to work with, I just don't understand why people tell him to spend 3x more then what he can afford.
You really don't need a Cadillac when a Chevy will do.
quote:Originally posted by toad67
$0-$1200 or so.........quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
knowing your budget would help immensely.
Can't go wrong with a Stag piston at under $ 1,000.00.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=252434284
Not a bad deal and one to consider but still would run him at least $1050 or so including shipping and transfer fees. Again don't know if his $1200 includes the price of any additional optics. Even if not still leaves him $150-$200 for some additional optic.
I wouldn't mind having one of these in a lefty version.
But still this would be his only choice in a piston driven gun within his price range.
Most of us clean our guns after every session, in the field or at the range and in that regard a DI is great
The fact is the DI AR15 was a problem that needed a solution and there have been many many to come forth from HK, LWRC, LMT PWS, POF, and a host of others as well as new designs not based on the AR and all are superior in function particularly long term use in the field where numerous reports have shown the AR/M4 to be problematic when fouled because of the DI gas system .
Notice the G36 is a piston as is the Daewoo, the FN FS2000 and the FN SCAR as well as the many piston AR/M4 types.
When special ops wants a weapon guess what, they choose piston not DI because they get to use what the feel they need.
They used HK416s to take out Bin Laden a piston M4 type
The average grunt gets told what he has to use, they don't get a choice.
I owned Daewoo piston types for 15 years. The second one I bought I ran 3000 rounds through it and then gave it its only cleaning in 7 years.
I came home from shooting my very nice Les Baer AR15 Varmint. I shot 30 rounds.
I was curious if any AR parts were compatible with the Daewoo so took it apart to check.
It had maybe 2500 rounds since the cleaning.
The Daewoo looked like it had not been shot at all and the Les Baer was filthy from 30 rounds.
Now, I don't krap where I eat and if I can help it I will have a gun that operates the same way
For the argument that the carbon has to go somewhere, fair enough question but are you objective enough to read an answer or will you close your eyes?
It does accumulate in the piston, true. But, the comparison is like throwing the garbage into a dumpster or putting it in your pocket.
Which smells better and which can hold more????
That is a fair assessment if you have owned both piston and DI types.
If your AR is for range use and will be cleaned regularly I agree, nice platform.
If you ever thought of your gun for WSHTF you might want one that can go thousands of rounds without needing constant cleaning.
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
CP
buy the zero (0) one that way you will have money left over for ammo[:0][:0][:D][:D][;)]
thats a good one love it.
I love my pony gun, 6920, with an EoTech jmho
I did state for the OP purposes a DI would be fine.
Most of us clean our guns after every session, in the field or at the range and in that regard a DI is great
The fact is the DI AR15 was a problem that needed a solution and there have been many many to come forth from HK, LWRC, LMT PWS, POF, and a host of others as well as new designs not based on the AR and all are superior in function particularly long term use in the field where numerous reports have shown the AR/M4 to be problematic when fouled because of the DI gas system .
Notice the G36 is a piston as is the Daewoo, the FN FS2000 and the FN SCAR as well as the many piston AR/M4 types.
When special ops wants a weapon guess what, they choose piston not DI because they get to use what the feel they need.
They used HK416s to take out Bin Laden a piston M4 type
The average grunt gets told what he has to use, they don't get a choice.
I owned Daewoo piston types for 15 years. The second one I bought I ran 3000 rounds through it and then gave it its only cleaning in 7 years.
I came home from shooting my very nice Les Baer AR15 Varmint. I shot 30 rounds.
I was curious if any AR parts were compatible with the Daewoo so took it apart to check.
It had maybe 2500 rounds since the cleaning.
The Daewoo looked like it had not been shot at all and the Les Baer was filthy from 30 rounds.
Now, I don't krap where I eat and if I can help it I will have a gun that operates the same way
For the argument that the carbon has to go somewhere, fair enough question but are you objective enough to read an answer or will you close your eyes?
It does accumulate in the piston, true. But, the comparison is like throwing the garbage into a dumpster or putting it in your pocket.
Which smells better and which can hold more????
That is a fair assessment if you have owned both piston and DI types.
If your AR is for range use and will be cleaned regularly I agree, nice platform.
If you ever thought of your gun for WSHTF you might want one that can go thousands of rounds without needing constant cleaning.
Wulfmann
Okay Wulfmann, the only thing that you stated that pertains to the original post by Toad is in your first two sentences.
Were talking about a guy that has $1200 to spend on an AR. All he wants to do is plink and maybe do some shooting from a helicopter.
He is not going on any covert missions nor is he planning to shoot from a helicopter with a Beta C-Mag. He isn't doing anything that related to a balls out combat mission. He is not going out into the desert to capture any extremists.
He's basically left with one choice if he would even want a piston gun and that's only if he also wanted to include optics in his $1200 budget.
As far as the SHTF scenario if you had to shoot thousands of rounds without cleaning you've got a lot bigger problems. There also is the possibility of having one of those 3-4 extra parts breaking as well.
Apparently in a SHTF scenario there is no basis to say that this would be Toads go to gun so your point is pretty moot.
This could be said for a lot of people here as well
Now I really didn't want to go here but I will. In a SHTF scenario as it applies to me and me only in this case as I can't answer for others. I'm pretty much stuck right where I am. I live in a big city and it would be impossible for me to leave town because I would have to drive completely across town to get out and I still don't have a specific destination.
I'm stuck to defend my home from whom or what ever. If I have to shoot thousands of rounds to defend my house I got a lot bigger problems. If I would have any break down of a firearm regardless of the cause I would throw that weapon down and just grab another.
So again worrying about a gas gun or a piston gun is a moot point. Anything with moving parts in it is going to break sooner or later.
So in closing Toads best bet money wise is to go with the gas gun and Toad is who we are talking about here, not what would Armilite or Wulfmann would do. Toad has a budget here so lets just stick to that.
You are correct but I doubt that Toad will be hunting from a helicopter using a Beta C-Mag or that he will be in any combat situation. I doubt that anyone on this forum will ever be in a combat situation that would require that many rounds where they might melt down a barrel. If I was in the military then I might/would consider the option of a piston upper.
I'm not saying that they don't serve a purpose but for the average shooter he/she doesn't need it. The man stated he has a $1,200 window to work with. If that also includes optics
it rules out all piston driven guns price wise.
When someone comes on here and states that he has x amount of dollars to work with, I just don't understand why people tell him to spend 3x more then what he can afford.
You really don't need a Cadillac when a Chevy will do.
Never helo-hunted, but I would imagine that it requires more rounds per target than shooting from a stand. I have worked with a couple of guys that hunted hogs from ATVs (not sure of the legality) and they said that they packed as many magazines as they could carry, suggesting a lot of rounds. Ethics of this type of hunting, even for culling feral hogs or yotes is questionable to me, but some don't seem to concern themselves with it.
A piston rifle would also expel less gas out of the receiver with the spent cartridge, though this concern is probably minimal given the that some sort of hatch is open. With a name manufacturer like Stag selling them for around $ 1,000.00 it is obviously worth considering. The $ 130.00 holosight you just sold would make a good high volume hog shootin combination that would just stay within budget.
As wulfmann points out the visual difference between the piston and DI systems is dramatic. I've got one of the Stags and an LWRC and was extremely surprised at the difference in the amount of carbon that enters the receiver. We all know what a typical AR looks like after a few dozen rounds. The piston rifles hardly look like they've been fired.
Brad Steele
I have stated from the beginning the OP was fine with a DI gun and his budget and recommended some DI guns
I did not start the piston debate.
I merely pointed out some blatant inaccuracies and myths being posted so all reading this would get some "real and credible" information on the differences in DI and piston.
No matter what I posted armilite finds an angle to say it does not matter or i would have to worry about something else so it appears no matter what I say he wants to believe it is invalid.
I have had them both and now have them both.
This idea that there are more parts in a piston so they will break is comical.
True anything with moving parts can break and while I keep spare parts for all my weapons I have back up guns as well.
But, the nature of a piston keeping out carbon from the action area means there is less maintenance to all the other parts and that reduces wear as well as heat entering this area which further reduces wear and failure possibilities.
A good comparison is a car motor oil system one (DI) has no oil filter and the other (piston) adds an oil filter to keep out the burnt carbon from reentering the motor and someone saying there is a chance the filter could fail so it is not good to have one.
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
Flat top /1 in 9 twist Collapsable. Rock river should do ya bra .. I have hunted hogs [never from the air ] Not enough knock dwn power 4 me though.. I have 1 question ...why would you NOT look at 12 gauges ?? If you had a auto loader with a xtra full turkey choke and shot 3 inch 00buck THAT... would knock sum hogs dwn !! Nice solid report from the ground too if you should miss and that would be a easy follow up with a auto loader . You can even put red dots on 12 gauges too..or lights .Hope this helps you !
12 ga is fine if you plan on getting 1 or 2 hogs out of a groups of 5-20. 30 rnd mag in ar and the ability to add 30 more in a matter of seconds your rate of firepower increases immensely.
There are clear advantages to the piston over the original DI design.
For the application that you describe, the juice is not worth the squeeze.
After much consideration and consternation and based on the expert advice of many of those who are now engaged in a death struggle over a word or two in some previous post...
I decided on a Rock River Operator II. Added an entry level EOTech and a GripPod vertical fore grip/bipod. Under 400 for the EOTech, under 200 for the GripPod. 8 and change for the rifle. If you know that you're going to go flattop from the beginning, you can save a couple of hundred and not have extra stuff in a box in the bottom of your safe.
I got a good deal on the EOTech. I'd suggest you spend a little more and get one that is night site compatable. Mine isn't. If you're hunting hogs, you're going to want that option soon.
Get the military verson of the GripPod. Don't save 50 bucks here and there. If you expand your budget to $1500, you'll have a hog hunting machine with lots of room for adaptation later on.
I envy you. Like boating, you can't buy gas money or pay for the ride unless he's licensed for hire... but you can buy all the beer once you're on the ground.[;)][;)]
Please note.
I have stated from the beginning the OP was fine with a DI gun and his budget and recommended some DI guns
I did not start the piston debate.
I merely pointed out some blatant inaccuracies and myths being posted so all reading this would get some "real and credible" information on the differences in DI and piston.
No matter what I posted armilite finds an angle to say it does not matter or i would have to worry about something else so it appears no matter what I say he wants to believe it is invalid.
I have had them both and now have them both.
This idea that there are more parts in a piston so they will break is comical.
True anything with moving parts can break and while I keep spare parts for all my weapons I have back up guns as well.
But, the nature of a piston keeping out carbon from the action area means there is less maintenance to all the other parts and that reduces wear as well as heat entering this area which further reduces wear and failure possibilities.
A good comparison is a car motor oil system one (DI) has no oil filter and the other (piston) adds an oil filter to keep out the burnt carbon from reentering the motor and someone saying there is a chance the filter could fail so it is not good to have one.
Wulfmann
I only posted a comment made by someone that is more of any expert then every one here combined.
You brought in all the SHTF scenarios and all the combat missions that Toad is about to go on.
The point of this entire post is Toad has $1,200 to spend we don't know if that also includes money for optics.
He is limited to ONE Piston operated gun in that range. He doesn't have $1400 or $1500 or $3000 to spend on a rifle.
If he wants to buy a Stag piston gun fine.
No question about the piston gun being cleaner but you still have to run a patch down the barrel at least. So big deal you have to clean the crud of the bolt & bolt carrier, is that a three hour job.
What the guy wants is basically an entry level gun with a few extra features. That gives him a lot of different features.
The last AR I built was sitting in my safe with 900+ rounds through it without being cleaned. I wasn't going to clean it until it had a stoppage, I wanted to shoot it until it wouldn't shoot anymore. A buddy of mine seen it and wanted it so bad that he bought it just as it was.
Not my words but words of a real expert.
Sorry if the photo stretches the page I tried it on the smaller setting but it was to hard to read.
[img][/img]
And at the end of the day, everyone is saying very close to the same thing.
Right now, I have no magnification. But if you really want to get things going, ask about what to bolt to the flat top.[:D][:D][:D][:D]
I relied heavily on Armilite's help when looking at optics.
And at the end of the day, everyone is saying very close to the same thing.
Right now, I have no magnification. But if you really want to get things going, ask about what to bolt to the flat top.[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Well thank you I'll keep you in mind when I have my next giveaway. But to answer your question you can't beat the Bushnell M&P 1X32 that I keep harping about in the $150 range.
If you want some magnification you can't beat the Leatherwood (Hi-Lux) CMR 1X24 for a tad over $300. Every now and then Midway has them on sale or check on SWFA's web site, they have pretty good prices.
Of course if moneys no object then go ahead and buy a Eotech.
Just don't buy a Barska or Blackthorne [:D][:D]
Bigoutside if you want to talk optics I'll reply.
quote:beantownshootah
Advanced Member
USA
11550 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 4:49:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote
quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
I shot a brand-new Sig piston gun yesterday. I normally shoot DI guns, both personally owned Colt/Bushmaster/DPMS semis and work-owned full auto Colt M-4s. I couldn't tell the difference between the two systems, what is all the hoopla about the piston vs. DI for the average gun owner in the US?
Piston is supposed to be more reliable under dirty conditions or from lack of cleaning. It runs cooler since hot gas isn't vented directly into the action. It can also be advantageous if you're running a really short-barrel system or suppressor (or both). Those are basically the main advantages.
Disadvantages include greater cost, potentially greater recoil impulse (from piston reciprocating shock), slight increase in weight, and (so far) non-standardization of parts. Piston guns definitely aren't MORE accurate than gas/direct impingement ones, though how much less accurate they are (and whether or not it matters) is debatable.
If you're running a short barreled or suppressed gun, are absolutely paranoid about reliability, hate to clean your guns, or just have to have the "latest-greatest" than a piston system might be for you.
For the other 95%+ of shooters (myself included), there probably isn't any real advantage.
Incidentally, if I really wanted a piston gun, I'd probably just buy one designed as a piston gun from the onset (eg a SCAR, etc) rather than buying an aftermarket conversion.
Todd
Pigs are what killed the dinosaurs. They are armored. Nearly indistructable, and no human alive could kill them until the advent of the 30-06 and the 1911. Many people tried killing them with a .45, but until the 1911 platform was developed, the .45 would only bounce off of them.
The .223 is only suitable for killing deer.
stir stir stir[;)][;)][;)]
Oh, and you'll never be able to kill a pig with a .223
Pigs are what killed the dinosaurs. They are armored. Nearly indistructable, and no human alive could kill them until the advent of the 30-06 and the 1911. Many people tried killing them with a .45, but until the 1911 platform was developed, the .45 would only bounce off of them.
The .223 is only suitable for killing deer.
stir stir stir[;)][;)][;)]
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