Deep psychology, not gun related

Iconoclast

OK, I'm about the least philosophical individual in the world, definitely not given to exploring the deeper meanings of anything. But I had an experience / insight a few days ago that I've been kicking around in my mind & decided to share it here. I rarely dream (at least any that I remember). But, for whatever reason, I did a few days ago. And retained some subconcious third party observer who pointed out to me that elements of the dreams were drawn from other dreams of the past - which were clear memories in that state, although not concious ones. My first wife - seriously - would throw a 30+ day fit if, in her dreams, I did something of which she did not approve (very often, in fact ). Which made me reflect on how much our dream states affect our waking behavior, even though we may not realize it. Do we have a separate emotional / cognitive existence in sleep which we do not have when awake, although the two obviously interact? Any thoughts on this? Clouder (when I took creative writing I was counseled to keep a journal of my dreams to serve as a source inspiration)? Hey, at least it is a different subject

.250Savage

They say everything in our dreams are just aspects of ourselves, just to muddy the waters even further. Other than that, yes, I am always "me" in my dreams, save that I readily accept that I may have a 2" threaded hole in my kneecap or that if I stab people who have no innards, I can't kill them.But I never have weird dreams.

offeror

Sometimes my dreams are wild and make no sense, but often I will find myself playing out a resentment or an anxiety in a dream, laced with some fact and some fiction. I have even waked up in a better mood or worse mood depending on the dream I had right beforehand. I don't think dreams are always total fantasies, and I think they may be sometimes a therapeutic part of sleeping. I think I actually "work through" some feelings at times. I don't think it's a separate life in there, but I do think dreams will open up areas that I habitually keep shut during the day, sometimes.

beachmaster73

Iconclast...all I know is that whenever there is a lion chasing me in my dreams, my legs and feet turn to lead and I wake up right before he eats me. I've never thought about a dream having an effect on my waking hours....now you have me thinking. Beach

concealedG36

I'm sure that our sub-conscious mind affects our waking hours. And, I also think it works the other way around. Have you ever watched a movie right before bed and then dreamt about it? Or, have you ever been worried about something in your daily life only to have the problem occur in your dreams? I visited the dentist the other day for a regular cleaning. My teeth are fine, but during my dreams that night I dreamt that my teeth had all fallen out!!Weird.

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Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals

Iconoclast

What was particularly striking about this experience was that there were two separate manifestations of 'me' present. At the first level, one was experiencing the dream. At a different level, the other was objectively evaluating that experience, pointing out elements drawn from prior dreams. The second issue is that it seems we have a pool of memories or experiences lurking in dream land which is largely separate from those we draw upon in our waking lives. Or, perhaps more accurately, that our real world experiences have a greater influence on our dream world than the converse.And finally, the question that arises, to what extent do the images from our sleep affect our emotions and perceptions when we are awake? In this case, it was fairly profound . . . my normal interest in matters of philosophy and psychology generally stops with an acknowledgement that such things exist and are of interest to some people. I had always considered my ex-wife's extension of her dream world into her reality as an aberration. Sometimes humorous, sometimes frustrating . . . a facet of her personality that seemed pitiable and perhaps symptomatic of greater negatives which were all too evident in her character. But this experience has made me ponder the degree to which this affects all of us. It explains, I think, the frequent plot element of dreams taking on a separate existence which is found in certain genres of fiction - to say nothing of the acceptance of that element as plausible (if only for the duration of reading / watching experience) by those who enjoy those genres.Someone trained in psychology could, I'm sure, point to research or have a technical term for this.

Bullzeye

What if you're still dreaming, Iconoclast?

offeror

I prefer to conclude that we have a pool of memories that are clearer and stronger than we realize. These veiled memories still influence our waking daily lives. Dreams give us a peak under the scab occasionally to show us a little more about what is still remembered in there, still making us tick. Things I thought I had dealt with and put away long ago are still under there, ready to "zing" me in a dream every now and then. It keeps me from becoming self-satisfied that I can handle everything that's ever happened to me without any further work, or from believing that some stuff that once affected me deeply no longer has any influence. It does, despite my best efforts to eliminate it, d*** it.

j2k22

Great post! The neat thing about the world of dreams is it's imprecision. Nobody can make definitive statements about what happens there, or what it means, or where "it" really is located.There are some common agreements about this world, but that is only a comfort to those who need a crowd of like-minded voices to feel secure. Truly, this is the portal to magic and mystery in our lives! I have had the same experience that you describe, of observing from various angles or levels. One part of me seems to be directly participating in the action, and another part is back a few paces, observing and analyzing, instead of acting. Sometimes there is another level, which seems to keep track of the planes where the actions are taking place, as well as an awareness that I still have a body lying in bed. While there are folks who would hasten to "explain' all this to you, I think that we are basically on our own when it comes to making "sense' out of the experience. The earlier reply that hinted at deep memories being revisted during dreams seems to be headed in the right direction. I seem to have memories and knowlege and experience which was not gathered during this lifetime.Too many details which were not gathered from books, TV or movies. Dreams can be high adventure, pure terror, or anywhere in between. Sometimes I'm glad to wake up and be done with a dream ( working on some tedious, intractable, and interminable thing that needs repair) sometimes it ruins my whole day to awaken form a visit from a former lover. Some dreams seem to be a complete waste of time, and others can change your whole outlook on life. Thanks for posting on the subject!

Iconoclast

Bullzeye, long ago there was a scifi story that treated your question with an interesting twist; I'll tell you about it if we should ever meet. Unquestionably what we experience while we are awake influences our dreams. I have vivid memories of solving math and computer programming questions in my sleep when I was in college, for example - my body was resting but my mind kept working on the problems I had not been able to solve the evening before . . . not a method that was particularly reliable, but it did happen a few times. But the elements of the dreams I observed the other night were surreal - undoubtedly some devotee of psychology would find profound symbolism in them. These were powerful images seemingly unrelated to the real world, but garnered from past episodes which apparently had been stored in the dream warehouse, flashing past at speed, almost a "This is your dream life, Iconoclast" thing. Really strange. There were many of them. I don't recall but one, and that vaguely . . . the rest have slipped beneath the waves of my subconcious again.

whiteclouder

Icon:There was a time when I would weigh in here but... Too much pissing and moaning greets anything remotely intellectual on this board now, though this subject begs inspection and comparing.Enjoy your dreams, they are your essence.Clouder..

Lightning

Definition: DREAM

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Mind awake while body is asleep.

j2k22

or, minds awake while body rests. The affairs of the body when it is awake and moving occupy a lot of our attention, and we can't always hear the other tracks that are running. When the body sleeps, those fainter voices are more easily heard. There's a lot going on in there!

Iconoclast

Actually, Clouder, I was rather hoping you would, since I know writers often draw on their dreams for creative inspiration.

whiteclouder

icon:There are memories in your brain that were not stored there in your life time. And you're right, I have visions of settings that when researched are accurate down to the enth detail. Characters take on voices of their own, to the point of absolutely refusing to come alive unless I use the words they supply. I know where dreams come from and I will leave it at that, use them as they are meant to be used and wonder at another of the wonders that we are composed of.Clouder..

beachmaster73

Iconoclast....great post. Now you have me wondering. I've always thought that dreams were nothing more than an over stimulated brain continuing to function after the body went into rest. But when you start talking about TWO levels of existance in a dream I have to admit that I think I too have experienced that. Almost like you are observing your own actions within the dream. It really would be neat if we could get an experienced psychologist to explain what was actually going on in there. Beach

Iconoclast

Perhaps my experience earlier this week lubricated some very rusty hinges and played on hidden desires, for last night I dreamed a full length novel which is still vivid in my mind this morning . . . . I'm working on the outline between posts. Always wanted to write, just never had the imaginination - far too pragmatic. The plot elements were good, if not exactly chronologically linear and some of the characters incredibly developed - resembling no one I've ever known. Interesting . . . . Mr. Stolid goes to Big Apple Publishing? Maybe.

daddo

I like it when I know I'm dreaming and have fun doing what I want,I can-* Fly around with a thought.* Wake myself up by consentrating on opening my eyes.* Attack my attacker who is shooting or trying to stab me.* Stop running from a threat and go after the threat.

Mom Mom

The only dreams i have that I get upset about are the ones about work. i figure my time is my time; work gets enough out of me when I'm there; I don't need to be dreaming about it for free.

Rembrandt

Man has questioned his dreams for centuries....Joseph was promoted to a position of high authority for correctly interpeting Pharoah's dream of the 7 thin cattle and 7 fat cattle....which meant 7 years of abundant crops followed by 7 years of famine in Egypt. The ancient's took dream interpretation quite seriously....Many inventors have made their scientific break throughs after writing down details of a dream immediately after waking. While the dream seems quite logical and realistic after waking....more often than not, the continuity begins to unravel after a clearer examination....

barto

mom-mommy apologies but ive often solved many work-related problems while dreaming.i do a lot of metal fabrication & often hit a snag-wake up in the middle of the night with the whole answer laid out in front of me like a book.ill never look THAT gift horse in the mouth. barto

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the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer

Rosie

I hate to break it to all of you but we are all dreaming right now. The first one to wake up, BE QUIET!!

RugerNiner

I think anybody who sees a psychologist ought to have their head examined.

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