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Gun Show Fantasies & Lame Reporters

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Gun Show Fantasies & Lame Reporters
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF NY Times Op-Ed

A guard at the entrance to the convention hall politely stopped me. "You've got to check your guns here," he explained.

By lucky coincidence, I wasn't carrying a concealed handgun. But the Michigan Gun & Knife Show, held here over the weekend, was the place to buy any kind of pistol and lots more: huge .50-caliber semiautomatic rifles, fuse wire, Confederate flags and 75-round clips for an AK-47 in case I wanted to pursue moose that lacked the sense to flee if I missed the first 74 times. Plus instruction manuals for converting semiautomatic rifles into machine guns and, for $10, "How to Build Your Own Bazooka."

Gun show bumper stickers are big on machismo: "I just got a gun for my wife - It's the best trade I ever made" and "Warning: Driver only carries $20 worth of ammunition."

As I tried the feel of a used $129.95 Polish assault rifle with a handy bayonet, the seller beamed. "That's a powerful gun," he said. "It's the only one I know that can put a round through bulletproof glass."

Hmmmm. That did make it a useful sporting weapon, if ever I anticipated hunting deer as they traveled in armored limousines.

These gun shows are incredibly common - there are 4,500 of them a year in the United States - and constitute one loophole in the war on terrorism that the Bush administration refuses to plug.

Instant background checks are normally required before a gun purchase. This check system has stopped 690,000 sales of guns to people with felony convictions. But the background checks are not required when unlicensed dealers sell at gun shows.

The upshot is that at gun shows, criminals or terrorists can buy an arsenal without even showing an ID. Here in Michigan, for example, a member of Hezbollah, Ali Boumelhem, was convicted last year of buying weapons at gun shows to ship to Lebanon.

Years ago I was held at machine-gunpoint one night in Beirut, and it seemed the gun capital of the world. So it's unnerving to learn that frustrated Lebanese terrorists come to America for weaponry by taking advantage of our lax gun rules.

I found three other recent examples of people with terrorist connections - an Irishman and two Pakistanis - also shopping for weapons at American gun shows. Of course this isn't primarily an issue of international terrorism, but rather an urgent public health crisis: guns kill one American every 20 minutes. Even since Sept. 10, six times as many Americans have died from guns as from international terrorism.

That isn't likely to change much, for 48 percent of American voters have guns in their homes - and ownership of firearms rises with income and education. But we can muster a political consensus to take limited steps like closing the gun show loophole to save lives and hamper criminals and terrorists.

Eighteen states have already moved to reduce the loophole, and the burden of federal action would be minimal. At this Michigan show, sales were permitted only after a background check, yet no one seemed terribly inconvenienced or went postal. When I pressed one dealer on whether the instant checks were a burden, he shrugged and launched on a riff about a more vexing concern: a young man who had recently rented a gun to commit suicide.

"Can you believe it?" he complained. "He was too cheap even to buy the gun!"

During a presidential debate with Al Gore, George W. Bush said: "I support instant background checks at gun shows." Even John Ashcroft, who may well have been born clutching a handgun in his tiny pink fingers, told a Senate subcommittee, "This administration does support closing the gun show loophole."

But President Bush refuses to put his administration where his mouth is. He has not endorsed either of the bills that would begin to close the loophole. (One of them, a compromise sponsored by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman, is that rarity, a major gun safety bill with a Republican sponsor.)

President Bush prides himself on his willingness to do whatever it takes to fight terrorism - lock up zillions of Arab men, introduce military tribunals, invade Afghanistan and Iraq. If terrorists were buying weapons at these kinds of gun shows in small foreign countries, we might try bombing them. So what about closing America's own gun show loophole? http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/archive.php?aid=488



"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Comments

  • RickstirRickstir Member Posts: 574
    edited November -1
    I'll have to be honest here. I am for law abiding citizens having the right to carry arms. That does not include people with criminal convictions. When you commit felonies against society you forfiet some of your rights, (I.E., voting). I do not see an overwhelming problem with having background checks at gun shows. If the technology is available and works, it should be used.

    Like in the NFL, defense is the key.
  • RedlegRedleg Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rick,

    Isn't it true that when a felon is released from prison, he or she has served his debt to society...thereby restoring all his rights?
  • RedlegRedleg Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rick,

    Isn't it true that when a felon is released from prison, he or she has served his debt to society...thereby restoring all his rights?
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    "That isn't likely to change much, for 48 percent of American voters have guns in their homes - and ownership of firearms rises with income and education."

    Go figure.

    I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Generally when released from prision, felons are released early and on parole or probation. They have forth waivers, they have no right to vote. They have no right to lawfully purchase or posess a gun.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."

    Edited by - Alpine on 06/05/2002 12:42:59
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Many States have laws that prohibit Convicted felons from owning or possessing firearms at any time even if they have served their time or have been sucessfully released from Probation. It is especially true for felons that actually served prison time. It is also against federal law to possess a firearm as a felon. This is a law that was almost completely ignored by the Klinton Administration.

    I know this is a hot issue among gun owner, but I firmly believe that a felony conviction should preclude an individual from ever owning or possessing a firearm. Although some felons made one mistake in their
    life, most have multiple felonies and there should be an absolute line....It is called consequenses for inappropriate behavior.

    JMHO...Flame away if you feel the need...

    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Damn, don't ya' get tired of these people who've heard all the anti-gun BS and have made up their minds based on those lies. 690,000 sales to felons stopped??? Yeah, right. He got that straight from the Brady bunch and didn't attempt to have them prove it. It is, of course, a lie. Terrorists buying guns in the U.S. to ship to their buddies in Lebanon, Libya, Syria, etc.? What a crock. If this fool had done any research he'd have discovered that you can buy an AK-47 in any of those places for a damn sight less than you can here. Wouldn't we all love to be able to go to Beirut on a gun buying trip with only what 1 AK-47 would cost here. A "Polish" assault rifle that'll put a bullet through bullet proof glass. I always understood it to be the AP projectile that'll go through the glass. Whatever rifle it came out of. His piece is so full of lies and distortions that it's worthless as an objective editorial. But what would we expect from someone who thinks "McPain" is a Republican.
    What a "maroon".

    Mudge the irritated

    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • DupontDupont Member Posts: 129
    edited November -1
    This check system has stopped 690,000 sales of guns to people with felony convictions.

    Ah EXCUSE ME!! Lets get these numbers correct!!

    My wife was one who failed one of these checks!!

    She's no felon, no criminal, not an ex con, has no restraining order, ECT!

    Why was she turned down, you ask!

    Her drivers license was 2 days expired!!! And that is it!!!

    Would love to see all the real reasons why some of these people were actually turned down!!

    Kind of makes you wonder???

    Of course I can play the piano, as long as it has pedals!
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    There is NO LOOPHOLE. Y'all said it already - numbers, lyin, fabricatin, whinin sonsab-tch. And I do get tired of hearing about convicted felons. Like they go to gunshows, when Joe nightclub has a few handy if they need to use one.

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • Rob GreeneRob Greene Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    690,000?? Does this mean that the country club prison system now holds an additional 690,000 members? If it doesn't, it should. If any felon attempts to purchase a firearm, they have committed a crime. It's time that the current laws were enforced. Leave us law abiding citizens alone!!

    **It is your right to posess a firearm. In case of questions, please refer to ammendment 2, United States Constitution.**
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How many times do I have to ask this, should even non violent "white collar" criminals lose their rights to own guns?? If you commit tax fraud or bounce a freaking check in PA you cannot own a gun! There is one on this board who say, "if you was in jail for a year or more, you should not have a gun", well how about 364 days, can he still have a gun?! Violent offenders should not have guns, but there are many many many non violent crimes that keep a person from having guns, and that is wrong. PA law also says if you have ever been convicted of a DUI, no guns. Is that fair? Some slob gets caught for driving home after a few too many and loses his gun rights in this state, FOREVER!

    No, I am not affected by this but I have two friends who for stupid reasons cannot own a gun, 1 has a 20 year old goof up, stealing booze when he was 15 and the other bounced a check on Sears for $1500, no guns for them huh?
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:As I tried the feel of a used $129.95 Polish assault rifle with a handy bayonet, the seller beamed. "That's a powerful gun," he said. "It's the only one I know that can put a round through bulletproof glass."

    How much you wanna bet that was a bolt-action Mosin-Nagant M44?

    What a bunch of BS.

    I was glad to see that he admitted that educated, intelligent people own firearms.

    DarkStar11
    "...But Mona Lisa musta had the highway bluesYou can tell by the way she smiles..."
  • REBJrREBJr Member Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The lies and twisted stats are not what bother me, ya get used to it.
    What really bothers me is that when I look at the address Josey1 took this from, I begin to wonder about his sanity! Josey1, buddy, armed females of america? archive no less! Ya really need to hit the range a LITTLE more![:D} Ralph

    Nothing very, very good or very, very bad lasts for very, very long.
  • n4thethrilln4thethrill Member Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i like the part where "guns kill one american every 20 minutes"

    when was the last you and your buddy walked in the room and your gun jumped up and shot him for no reason at all (man i hate it when that happens) i am so vexed at bigeted people trying to blame an object for the actions of people.

    when they get the "killer" guns i can see the headlines in the paper now "RABID RAKE POKES 9 PEOPLE AT THE MALL"

    you can be king or street sweeper but everyone is going to dance with the reaper

    Edited by - n4thethrill on 06/06/2002 00:43:19
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