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Icon strikes gold - rounds identified
Iconoclast
Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
Tailgunner, the top is based on no existing round although at a quick glance, it has strong resemblence to the .30-06
Top: .32-70 US Navy RIMLESS. . . this round had a BP designation, but the original specs envisioned a smokeless load with the BP as a fallback position. The Navy did all the loading, BTW. Except for the first trial, with 70gr of BP, all trials were conducted with the modern propellant. It was intended to be used in the Navy Gatlings and there were two rimmed design types with that in mind. One was the .32-70, the other essentially a necked-up .30 Krag which was never produced. Only 2,000 of the rimmed cases were supplied to the Navy for trials. Toward the end of the trials, an unknown, but very small quantity, of the rimless case design were also delivered. More than five, but less than 25, specimens are known to exist. Gold, indeed! [^][^][^][:D][^][^][^]
Middle: 7.65 Argentine Mauser . . . a special contract loading by Winchester for the Argentine Navy Match of 1914, with the special headstamp seen. There are enough of these around (I'd guess a few hundred) that they show up at auction from time to time.
Bottom: 11mm Brazilian Comblain loaded by Winchester. Again, perhaps a few hundred specimens out there.
======================
Went to my first gun show in over nine months today. That back really messed things up! But what a way to come back. Picked up several boxes of 9.4 Dutch revolver for peanuts - individual rounds alone are macadamias. That was the first table. The fifth, the guy had several Tupperware boxes full of individual rounds he'd bought from an estate. Quoted a scary price, but he had a list. I did the rest of the show (200 tables, little ammo) without finding anything and repaired to a cafe with his list and my special reference. Seven pages of specimens and after I assigned values, I noted that a median retail price on the first page alone (before I got to the real goodies!!) covered his asking price. Told my buddy, "John, I need to buy some ammo!" Now, out of roughly 2,000 rounds, I'm keeping only one, but sold at auction the rest will pay my investment 5-8 times over. In addition to the known items, including some true rarities, I've found at least two which, until today, I didn't know to exist . . . never seen them offered for sale, at least by not ones loaded by Winchester. And what group of people in the universe of shooting sport collectibles demonstrates possession of the most rabid desires, most bucks and least sense? GLOAT, GLOAT. I don't know whether to be happy because there was only one goody here for me, or sad. But, hey, it's one of those dilemmas one needs to have, you know? Besides, the guy has even more military and foreign ammo from the same source he's bringing to a different show in two weeks for me to examine. [:D][^]
So, in the spirit of the past ammo quizes, here are some examples of what I brought home this afternoon. All of these are three figure items, BTW . . . .
While this may look like a POS empty case (and indeed it appears to have been fired before it was sectioned, which is not at all surprising), this item is an incredibly rare military experimental from 1892. Only 2,000 cases were made of the rimmed version for trials (the military loaded these themselves), a far less (but quantity unknown) of the rimless were produced. I've been looking for the rimmed version for 35 years and have seen only one, shockingly out of my price range, but check the head on this one!!!!!! If you name it, you really know your "stuff!" This is the one I'm keeping - complete with a sugar-eating grin on my face! Kind of like coming up with a single digit S/N Colt in a rare configuration, for you gun collectors.
This one is well known in collecting circles and rare. I included the headstamp so you could have a chance in the identification. This is *NOT* a .30-06!
Lastly, this is a very scarce caliber in its own right; I've only seen two offered for sale in the last five years. However, this particular specimen sports a W.R.A.Co. headstamp . . . none of my references show it as being loaded by anyone but the arsenals of the country which used it, although admittedly these are not definitive on foreign calibers and commecial loadings. A sample or preliminary contract of some sort? Don't know, but I'm sure there's some guy out there who wants it a whole lot more than I do!
I don't expect anyone to truly ID these from the pix alone (I did - (patting self on back [^])), but if you should, my hat's off to you and why aren't you in the IAA???
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)
Top: .32-70 US Navy RIMLESS. . . this round had a BP designation, but the original specs envisioned a smokeless load with the BP as a fallback position. The Navy did all the loading, BTW. Except for the first trial, with 70gr of BP, all trials were conducted with the modern propellant. It was intended to be used in the Navy Gatlings and there were two rimmed design types with that in mind. One was the .32-70, the other essentially a necked-up .30 Krag which was never produced. Only 2,000 of the rimmed cases were supplied to the Navy for trials. Toward the end of the trials, an unknown, but very small quantity, of the rimless case design were also delivered. More than five, but less than 25, specimens are known to exist. Gold, indeed! [^][^][^][:D][^][^][^]
Middle: 7.65 Argentine Mauser . . . a special contract loading by Winchester for the Argentine Navy Match of 1914, with the special headstamp seen. There are enough of these around (I'd guess a few hundred) that they show up at auction from time to time.
Bottom: 11mm Brazilian Comblain loaded by Winchester. Again, perhaps a few hundred specimens out there.
======================
Went to my first gun show in over nine months today. That back really messed things up! But what a way to come back. Picked up several boxes of 9.4 Dutch revolver for peanuts - individual rounds alone are macadamias. That was the first table. The fifth, the guy had several Tupperware boxes full of individual rounds he'd bought from an estate. Quoted a scary price, but he had a list. I did the rest of the show (200 tables, little ammo) without finding anything and repaired to a cafe with his list and my special reference. Seven pages of specimens and after I assigned values, I noted that a median retail price on the first page alone (before I got to the real goodies!!) covered his asking price. Told my buddy, "John, I need to buy some ammo!" Now, out of roughly 2,000 rounds, I'm keeping only one, but sold at auction the rest will pay my investment 5-8 times over. In addition to the known items, including some true rarities, I've found at least two which, until today, I didn't know to exist . . . never seen them offered for sale, at least by not ones loaded by Winchester. And what group of people in the universe of shooting sport collectibles demonstrates possession of the most rabid desires, most bucks and least sense? GLOAT, GLOAT. I don't know whether to be happy because there was only one goody here for me, or sad. But, hey, it's one of those dilemmas one needs to have, you know? Besides, the guy has even more military and foreign ammo from the same source he's bringing to a different show in two weeks for me to examine. [:D][^]
So, in the spirit of the past ammo quizes, here are some examples of what I brought home this afternoon. All of these are three figure items, BTW . . . .
While this may look like a POS empty case (and indeed it appears to have been fired before it was sectioned, which is not at all surprising), this item is an incredibly rare military experimental from 1892. Only 2,000 cases were made of the rimmed version for trials (the military loaded these themselves), a far less (but quantity unknown) of the rimless were produced. I've been looking for the rimmed version for 35 years and have seen only one, shockingly out of my price range, but check the head on this one!!!!!! If you name it, you really know your "stuff!" This is the one I'm keeping - complete with a sugar-eating grin on my face! Kind of like coming up with a single digit S/N Colt in a rare configuration, for you gun collectors.
This one is well known in collecting circles and rare. I included the headstamp so you could have a chance in the identification. This is *NOT* a .30-06!
Lastly, this is a very scarce caliber in its own right; I've only seen two offered for sale in the last five years. However, this particular specimen sports a W.R.A.Co. headstamp . . . none of my references show it as being loaded by anyone but the arsenals of the country which used it, although admittedly these are not definitive on foreign calibers and commecial loadings. A sample or preliminary contract of some sort? Don't know, but I'm sure there's some guy out there who wants it a whole lot more than I do!
I don't expect anyone to truly ID these from the pix alone (I did - (patting self on back [^])), but if you should, my hat's off to you and why aren't you in the IAA???
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)
Comments
Woods
"we are but men... no more, no less..."
Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
276 Enfield
11x50R Belgian Albini
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
JC
Ted Kennedy's breath has killed more people than my car.
Tailgunner, woods - no, this preceded the experimental .276 rounds by more than a decade; also it is a US experimental, not British. Interesting to note, the experiments on this round were conducted in the year we first adopted the Krag, but obviously it is not that one.
Tailgunner, this *is* an 11mm round . . . but not the Albini (good idea, though!)
SP, the early 7x57 could be of value or it could be garbage. Depends very much on the headstamp and condition. When you find it, let me know & I'll tell you what you have.
interstate Dude, why would you think such a thing?? [;)]
Incidentally, on that first round, talking to my collector pals, less than 25 rounds known to exist, value between $500 & $1K, third one slightly more common, value $2-600. These are real values; the collectible ammo market is thin and incredibly quirky.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)
at one time?[?][?]
You can't miss fast enough.
This one, however predates that period by about a decade and was a pure USN project.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)
BTW, I know it's not your speciality, but I contacted a wildcatter about some of the cartridges he's developed IE samples/dummies. If anyones intrested in having one I'm tring to get pricing from him. The outside 2 are the 458 Hubel express (450gr @ 3000fps), the center one is the 458Win
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.