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Gun lovers are not patriots, period

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
Gun lovers are not patriots, periodBy Sanjai TripathiI think last week was Second Amendment Week. I can't be sure. It might've been national potato week or Bavarian folk dancing month or some other important cause that owned the time. It was some recent week, however.The notification did get me to read it again. 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'After a couple times through, it still doesn't make sense. In any case, the circumstances when it was written are very different from now. It's time for Americans to let go of their religious need for guns. They are no longer necessary for the security of the free State.In 1791, when the Bill of Rights was ratified, the country was not far removed from the Revolutionary War. It was fought to give the people of the colonies the right to self-determination. King George III had used his standing army to suppress them. The colonists defeated these armies, in large part with state militias and citizen irregulars.Before the war, citizens were required to quarter, or give free room and board, to the British army. So afterwards, the new Americans were not sure if they even wanted to have a standing army.Some thought the best model for defense against foreign invasion was an amalgam of "well-regulated" local militias. Also during that time, modern democracy was brand new. There was a legitimate fear that the democratic experiment would not succeed. The government could have proven unstable and been taken over by autocratic forces, again foreign or domestic.So the first original justification for the Second Amendment is to help citizens defend against foreign aggression. The second justification is to defend against domestic tyranny by the government. I say that now both of those are rendered obsolete by the same factor. That is the Unites States military.We have now seen that the local militia model of defense is ineffective. A centralized military just works better. You won't find very many people who would argue that the military should be broken up into state-sized pieces.With the growth of the central military has come a reality that can't be ignored. If someone were to take over the government of this country and gain control of that military, there is no lightly armed citizen force that could stop them.Many people say that the right to bear arms is what protects our freedom and rights from an overbearing government, but there is no example of this. In Waco, Ruby Ridge, and on the back roads around the west there have been groups that have tried to take part against armed conflict with government agents. What they all have in common is that they were hopelessly outgunned. And they were only fighting the FBI and BLM, not the actual military.The good news is that we don't really have to worry about government tyranny anymore. The Republican democracy experiment has become a highly stable tradition and establishment.What I'm saying is that while we can't overthrow the government anymore, it's alright because we don't have to. If the people don't like it, they can elect a new one.The Second Amendment can and will be debated for a long time, but it really doesn't apply for the original reasons. There are other more debatable justifications people have for wanting to own guns.Many will say that it is to 'preserve freedom,' or whatever. I don't believe, however, that people truly buy guns for reasons that abstract though, unless they are cultists or survivalist nuts. Most people have simpler causes.One is simply the feeling of power. If you have ever used a gun, you know what it is like. It is pretty cool to shoot stuff, or to think how you could destroy something or someone with a little finger motion. While this is a fascinating emotion, I don't think that it justifies the proliferation of efficient deadly weapons in a peaceful society.A related and better reason people cite is that guns can be used for protection and prevention of crime by law-abiding citizens. This is still weak to me, though.There are numerous non-lethal methods for stopping most criminals, unless they are armed. Such is the situation we have gotten into. Since criminals can easily access guns, law-abiding citizens should be able to also to protect themselves.Gun advocates say that if they are restricted or outlawed, then only criminals will have them. This is true in the near term, but they fail to realize where criminals get their guns. They buy and steal from the law-abiding owners in the first place. If they were restricted or outlawed, the supply would dry up.The last reason people own them is for sport. Again, it is fun to shoot stuff, like animals or targets. I don't mind that, although for some reason I think it should be customary to eat what you kill. But again, the fun does not justify the proliferation of lethal weapons.We have them ingrained in our culture. The Second Amendment not so clearly guarantees our right to own them. So for now I propose a national registry. Like an automobile, people should have to apply for a license, prove their competence, and refrain from illegal use to keep the right to own a firearm.Law-abiding citizens realistically don't have anything to fear from registering with the government. Sales should be regulated and registered also. Certain types of weapons, ammo and accessories that have no legitimate sport or personal defense purpose are and should be banned.This would eventually soak up the pool of deadly weapons in the hands of criminals, at which point the law abiding citizenry could disarm. There are more than 100 million firearms in this country now. It is time for America to examine what it is going to do with so many guns. Related Links:Sanjai TripathiThe Daily BarometerJessica MainardAfterword: Jessica Mainard wrote what AFA believes to be an appropriate rebuttle to Mr. Tripathi's article. We couldn't have said it better. Thank you Jessica. March 14, 2002 Editor, Daily Barometer: In response to Sanjai Tripathi's article "Gun Lovers are Not Patriots, Period," he not only misconstrued a vital part of this country's history and heritage, but he misstated a number of important facts. He argued that our national standing military is efficient, and there is no need for it to be broken into a number of state-by-state pieces, but he should be reminded that the reason it doesn't need to be broken up, is because we have the National Guard (not a militia by the way), which does operate on a state-by-state basis because it is important and efficient to do so. He also doubted that the defensive use of firearms is less frequent than the criminal uses. In actuality, there are seven times as many defensive uses of firearms in this country as there are criminal misuses. (See John Lott, More Guns Less Crime, Uniform Crime Reports, and National Crime Survey). He scurrilously underestimated the number of firearms in this country as 100,000,000. The actual number of legally owned firearms which is conservatively estimated at 200,000,000. He neglects to acknowledge the existence of the black market in this country (or any other which has tight gun control laws), and maintains that eventually criminals will give up their guns. This is specious at best. I'm pro-choice. I believe that I or any other law-abiding, citizen should have a wide array of personal protection options. With about 2,000 felons "stopped" in mid-crime every year and annual estimates of defensive gun uses between 760,000 and 3.6 Million (Lott p. 11), I choose for myself, the most effective tool I know. A handgun. Let me see a "rape whistle," a keychain of pepper spray, or a well-lit parking-lot try to top that. Mr. Tripathi should have spent a little more time paying attention during Second Amendment week. He might have learned that inalienable rights are something that you are born with, and not granted. You're also not required to take advantage of them. You make your choice, and allow me to exercise my right to make mine. Sincerely, Jessica L. Mainard, Collegiate Programs Director Second Amendment Foundation http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/archive.php?aid=332

Comments

  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    If the e-mail I sent that guy was a bullet, he'd be in a hurt locker.
    There is no apology for self defense. will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Oh well, what else would you expect coming from a guy called Sanjai Tripathi. He has no clue as to why this country is the best on Earth. What an ignorant *!Boomer
    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess that my ancesters fought and died for absolutely nothing...and I will have to remember to spit on their graves for not fighting harder to stop illegal laws from being written....( I hope every one realizes that most of what I just said was a facetious extrapolation of the absurdity of what I have just read)...
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who the hell is Sandratha Tripathi? Just look at his hell hole of a country, India or Pakistan, for models of how readily people riot and murder and how easily their governments are destabilized. One would expect the opposite attitude from him.
  • Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    UH...BULLS#!T
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Apparently this imbecile has never served in the military nor does she have a grasp of the limited capabilities of our military. I was having a conversation with a General in the Air Force in the mid-90's who stated that he felt we be "almost" as victorious if we had to wage Desert Storm all over again. We may have a great military but it is made up of human beings. War waged on home soil is best waged by those that live there. If war came to our soil how could a person from Maine possibly be as prepared to defend Texas any better than a Texan? This moron needs to enroll in Military Science 101 and get her head on straight.I am reminded of a story from the Cold War that occurred during the graduation of a new class of U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers. A "fishing boat" just off the coast of North Carolina congratulated each member of the graduating class by name and Social Security number over live radio broadcast. Needless to say, it wasn't a U.S. Navy ship.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 03-17-2002).]
  • songdogsongdog Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WTF- This person has no clue. I think they work for osama and is trying to disarm america. I mean look at that name, looks like a taliban fighter, or dumb * whichever you prefer, to me. And once again it shows this * has piss for brains, they stated a "republican democracy" sorry i believe this nation was established as a republic. So it would be a democratic replubic more than the other. And the comment about guns are not what the used to be. All in all that is true, but then the guns of the back countrymen and snipers were all barrels with riflings. Capable of effecient 200 yd. kills. and the very experienced could knock of a red, coat not neck, at 250 yds. Yes thqat is not todays military tactics, but local malitias today would not be as efficient against todays type of military fighting and tactics. songdog
    Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sadly, many people agree with this, it's not just the ignorant author. This is the PC line that is taught explicitly or implicitly in many colleges, high schools, and middle schools today.I was going over some points about the Constitution in my 7th grade son's history book the other day and the commentary in the book said that the 2nd Amendment in modern times applies to the National Guard. Now think about how absurd that is. Here is a section of the Constitution which is clearly for the purpose of limiting what the government can do, and the book's authors claim that the 2nd Amendment allows the government to arm its own troops. (The National Guard, although it can be called up by governors in each state, is organized, armed, trained, paid, and ultimately controlled by the federal Department of Defense.) Since when in history has a sovereign government (not under occupation) been unable to arm its own troops?
  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    its just like the ocean wearing away a rock cliff- one grain at a time.this is another wave. barto
    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    Let this Sanjai scum go back to his roadside urinal of a country and eat sheep sh#t!
  • skipjackoneskipjackone Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Screw him. Let's go bust some caps.
    ....Let's roll.
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like this Sanjai Tripathi commie might be a buddy of Pennsylvania's next governer "I won't take your deer guns" Ed Rendell. Mr. Rendell, like Tripathi, also believes that the 2nd Ammendment is no longer needed especially in his future socialist police state of Pennsylvania. "The well regulated militia is our national guard, and it is made up of trained citizens of our fine state", Ed Rendell. Hey Sanjai and Ed, how about the one million plus licensed (being well regulated) hunters who train and practice annually with their deer guns, are they not trained citizens of our fine state and part of the "milita"? As far as being patriotic, if you buy a firearm you must sign a form that states that you are according to the forms questions: I have never renounced my US citizenship, etc.. Just think of it, with only a phone call the governer of Pennsylvania (maybe not Ed) could muster a million man militia in addition to the National Guard in the advent of an emergency such as a massive terrorist attack, etc.. Of course, Ed and Sanjai, if you take our deer guns by doing away with the 2nd Ammendment it will be a lot easier for the National Guard to be defeated without armed citizens to back them up. My uncle once told me that he was thankfull to Hitler for one reason: he took all the guns away from the civilians and it made occupation possible and a lot safer in the German towns before the surrender.
    Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
  • imadorkimadork Member Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unfortunately, this attitude is promulgated by the people who write the history books. So it's logical that young people who read this PC * will be indoctrinated at a young age without even realizing it. Television, news magazines, talk show hosts, and Spokespeople agree: guns are bad! Don't ever even think about them! You have emotional problems for wanting guns!It's truly depressing. Pro-gun groups are hopelessly outgunned in the media.
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had another obvious thought about not needing the 2nd Amendment because the National Guard is now our "militia" and they are so reliable. Where was this reliable police and National Guard protection during the "Rodney King" riot in LA? Nowhere, that's where. If you didn't have firearms ready to go and the rioters targeted your home or business or person, too bad for you.
  • RUGERNUT3RUGERNUT3 Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm w/saxon and boomerang...blah...blah..andwill be happy to see his visa expire...
    "ANY" EXCUSE IS A GOOD REASON TO BUY "JUST 1 MORE".& VICIE-VERSIE!
  • imadorkimadork Member Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There's actually a pretty good response printed on the Barometer website...surprisingly.here
  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    If you read anything over and over, it can sound wrong. If you say- "oil" over and over, it begans to make no sense.The notification did get me to read it again. 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.' Read it once and it sounds perfect!
  • nglitznglitz Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I am reminded of a story from the Cold War that occurred during the graduation of a new class of U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers. A "fishing boat" just off the coast of North Carolina congratulated each member of the graduating class by name and Social Security number over live radio broadcast. Needless to say, it wasn't a U.S. Navy ship.This was because the orders commissioning each new officer were published in the Congressional Record, complete with name, rank & service number. The service numbers are now (last thirty years) the same as your Social Security numbers. Some * got ahold of a copy and broadcast it. The same bunch of * did this for the General Officers' promotion list on a website, IIRC.Some people are just *.Norm
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Idiocy, idealism, and intellectualism -- make terrible bedfellows. Peace on earth sounds good in theory, but at least until the Second Coming, we're on our own. Whiners like this who live down the street from you are going to be thankful that you're able to protect them when some disaster occurs on your street. Writers like this one have no corner on the market of "living in the real world." Give 'em a good hurricane, tornado, or earthquake on their block and watch them protect their home or store from a roving gang of looters or rapists with that set of car keys we were laughing about. They'll be thankful if we're willing to post a guard on the block to keep the peace for a few days. These people always think nothing will ever change -- even after 9/11, which really slays me. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt. Reminds me of the hilarious scene of two FBI guys on the roof in the movie RUTHLESS PEOPLE watching Bill Pullman's character down at street level doing some really goofy stuff -- one cop says, straight-faced, to the other: "This may be the dumbest human being on the planet -- should I shoot him?"
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
  • jhj370jhj370 Member Posts: 57 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice use of the word- scurrilously - you don't see that everyday.
  • seb1999seb1999 Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is a sorry state of affairs when a "Sanji" type gets in the print and even sorrier when meally mouth liberals try to convince us that this is right and it is the norm.My blood boils when I read crap like this. I am an immigrant from Canada, yes legal and a citizen in time to vote in the 2000 election and these people are dangerous.Have you been in Toronto lately and seen Metropolitan Toronto police officers carrying a "dirk"(SP?) as they are of the Sikh faith and it is their right to carry a jesus big knife? I don't know for sure but there are probably R. C. M. P (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) officers in turbans because it is their right. Keep listening to these guys and giving them print space and the FBI will be in burnooses (SP) Am glad I am here and even more glad and proud that I am a citizen and we should not be giving these religious zealots space in the print media.They are religious zealots because their religion is to bring us down and want here to be like it was back home (and back home was the pits or else why are they here?).My ancestors left these here United States after the revolution in the great Canadian Land Grab (United Empire Loyalists, those loyal to Britain's monarchy got a quarter section (160 Acres) on arrival.) and it took me 200 years to get back.Be ever vigalent and guard our rights and heritage so it is here for the next generation.Remember: Experience is the direct result of poor judgement.
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