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Abolishing America

GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Abolishing America: Mexican Army, Police Ignore Border


If it's war you want, forget Afghanistan and the "Axis of Evil" invented by the president's speechwriters and take a look at our dear amigo to the south, Mexico.

Last year, according to documented reports of the U.S. Border Patrol, Mexican troops and police officers crossed into United States territory at least 23 times. Since the Bush administration seems to be silent about and indifferent to these invasions, Rep. Tom Tancredo, by far the most courageous critic of mass immigration now in public life, has demanded an explanation from the Mexican government.

Don't bet your tamales he'll get a serious one.

The explanation Mr. Tancredo does get from Mexico is that the incursions were in pursuit of drug smugglers. "The troops are fighting against drugs," a Mexican government official told the Washington Times last week, "and sometimes they get lost in those areas--there is no clear marking for the border." [Mexican soldiers in border crossings Washington Times May 13, 2002]

Well, maybe sometimes they do. I guess you can't count on Mexican troops and police officers knowing where they are or being able to use maps, compasses and radios to find out.

But maybe sometimes they're not "fighting drugs" but smuggling them. That's what Mr. Tancredo, who visited the border region in April, found out.

U.S. Border Patrol agents "are reporting that they see people coming through with guns. The concern is that there are people coming through with arms, M-16s, protecting drug carriers," Mr. Tancredo says. "And they are not lost."

Mexicans covering for drug smugglers is not necessarily the issue, however. For several years now, Mexican troops seem to have waltzed into U.S. territory pretty much whenever and wherever they felt like it.

In March, the Border Patrol says, four Mexican troops carrying submachine guns and automatic rifles were detained when they encountered Border Patrol agents.

In October, 2000, 10 Mexican soldiers were reported to have fired on a U.S. air unit.

In March, 2000, two Mexican military vehicles allegedly on an anti-drug mission crossed the U.S. border and actually fired shots at Border Patrol agents.

Some of these incursions may indeed be accidents or the results of enforcement operations in uncertain territories. Then again, the fact is that Mexico really doesn't much care whether it's U.S. territory or not, since a great many Mexicans think the area belongs to them anyway. Given the vast immigration of Mexicans into the region, some day it will.

In 1997, the predecessor of current Mexican President Vicente Fox, Ernesto Zedillo, told Mexican nationals in Chicago, "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important--a very important--part of this." [RealAudio Sound Clip]

Just so. By encouraging the massive migration of its unwanted nationals into our country, Mexico constructs a population base that can eventually simply swallow the regions it lost in the Mexican-American War. Mr. Tancredo says Mexican officials told him Mexico views the Southwest United States and northern Mexico not "as two countries, but as 'one region.'"

Meanwhile, Mexican cops and troops can act as though the border doesn't really exist by crossing it whenever they feel like it and doing whatever they please, including firing on American government agents.

"These situations can be very difficult," a Border Patrol officer told the Times. "We are outgunned in these instances. They have automatic rifles, and we have handguns." Mexican military support for illegal drug smuggling, he said, is "a definite possibility." Aside from their profound patriotic attachment to the nation's lost territories, Mexican cops and soldiers are not exactly famous for their honesty.

The border incidents with Mexico are by no means new--I wrote columns about some of them as long as two years ago--but apparently neither the Clinton nor the Bush administration has done much about them. Mr. Tancredo has, at least to the extent that a congressman by himself can.

What should be done, now that the Border Patrol itself has confirmed that armed Mexican police and soldiers seem unable to stay out of a country that isn't theirs and where they have no business, is to deploy the U.S. Army to round up the illegal aliens and drug smugglers on our side of the border and to keep the Mexican army and police on theirs.

Almost certainly, the ulterior purpose of the military and police crossings is to habituate the U.S. government and its officials--not to mention American citizens--into thinking that areas that belong to the United States are really Mexican.

If so, a few shots from U.S. troops in the other direction might inform the Mexican military who it is who is really outgunned--and remind them of whose country they made the mistake of invading.

Comments

  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bush doesnt want to tick off the mexicans.
    ...they are a voting block he is counting on.

    "The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
    -James Madison
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sigh........that article is totally misleading. Most "mexicans" don't think that area belongs to them!

    A HUGE percentage of "illegal immigrants" aren't from Northern Mexico, they are from the southern part, and many aren't even from Mexico at all! They are from Guatamala, the southern Mexico states, etc.

    WHY would Mexico want the land back? They can't even handle what they have!

    This article reminds me of the anti-gunners. Vague references to "Mexican officials" and quoting someone who is out of office.....

    Merc (who lives 90 miles from the Mexico border, and realizes that a lot of Americans have NO CLUE when they are talking about this topic)



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Merc --
    I think you know whereof you speak. The only part of this story that sounds plausible to me is that there could be some corrupt cops or cop-frauds escorting drug runs into America. Being our supposed friends, Mexican officials can count on the fact that we do not have a heavily guarded souther border, and may not bother to challenge uniformed police, despite all the talk about border patrols for wetbacks. The idea that they are hoping to annex some land is far-fetched in the extreme, given how little effort it would take on our part to swat that fly.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yea..your right.None of this could be true. Lets just ignore the problem and hope it will go away. There.I feel better already.Don't fool yourselves. We have a serious problem with illegal immigration.Ignoring it will not make it go away.

    Before everyone starts the well known GB rant of "your a racist because of your user name" This doesn't have anything to do with racism.It has to do with the protection of this country and it's citizens. Didn't we learn anything about lax immigration laws after 9-11

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/12/141242.shtml

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/13/193432.shtml

    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020613-503264.htm

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/11/154211.shtml

    http://www.arizonarepublic.com/border/
  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    For some reason either the US or Mexico hasn't fiqured out that there is a border between the two countries. I do not hate mexicans, in fact they can be the best asset and freinds a person could have. I hate the way our government doesn't protect our border patrol and our border.
    These people are searching for work, food, and a way to improve their lifes.(something we ourselves would do). Yes- some are not the type we want here, and those should be put away- however; those make the good ones look bad.
    What ever happened to the national gard? We can rotate these guys and give them permission to fire back once fired upon and do it with a vengence!
    I live in Texas and if it is encroached upon, it's the same as if they are on my personal property. Our land is at stake, our lifes are at stake- lets kick * on all encroachers!
    Wheres our govener?
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't hate them either. I just think that immigration should be handeled in a way that is beneficial to the host country, not the rest of the world.


    http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/articles/0509migrantclaim09.html
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Grand Wizard IM with you 100%I know what you mean and keep getting the word out.This is another one of those instances the media dont report.What a shame,there are alot of patriotic Americans out there that would raise enough stink that the Goverment would have to do something about it.Keep us informed, in the mean time lets spread the news around a bit!!!!!

    Rugster
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Merc:
    I'm not sure what part of the south you're from, but you're dead wrong in your speculations. Or, perhaps you're just extremely lucky and live in that one in a million area that is not affected by these invasions.

    I've spoken with numerous ranchers in Arizona who are stuck on the border. The troubles they have had with the drug smugglers, Mexican army, illegal immigrants, etc. are unimaginable.

    Some militia groups, mine included, have joined a group called Ranch Rescue. www.ranchrescue.com is the website.

    Basically, we're going down there to help rebuild their homes and property. We'll also be guarding the border 24/7. It'll be a sad day for smugglers and invaders.

    This group has been at it for awhile now...interesting how you haven't heard of it, eh? Perhaps defending America's borders and her citizens from the Mexicans is too politically incorrect these days.

    Since the US government won't solve the problem, we will.

    Stand And Be Counted
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WELL I GUESS SINCE ITS NOT A PROBLEM I NEED TO REALIZE THAT WHEN I WAS IN LAREDO WAITING ON THE TRAIN TO MOVE SO I COULD GET IN TO THE PILOT TRUCK STOP THOSE SIX BEANERS THAT PILED OUT OF THAT CAR WITH JUGS OF WATER IN HAND AND SPRINTED OFF INTPO THE DESERT WERE A FIGMENT OF MY IMAGINATION.LAX IMMIGRATION LAWS WERE PART OF OUR PROBLEM AND THE PRES SAID HE WOULD FIX IT BUT I GUESS THAT DOESNT COUNT MEXICO.THE TRUTH IS ONLY ABOUT 10% OF THE ILLEGALS THAT CROSS THE BORDER COME TO WORK THE REST ARE HERE TO SUCKLE FROM THE TEET OF OUR WLFARE SYSTEM.ANYONE CARE TO DISPUTE THIS I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE WHERE YOU GET YOU FACTS FROM AND REFERENNCES TOO!!!!!!!

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
  • ameriskinameriskin Member Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i live in wisconsin and i'm forcd to deal with the invasions. i know it's not like mexas or mexifornia, but it's getting bad. one point i'd like to make that people don't want to hear about is.....when you have masses of people coming to country to work and earn money, it's not spent where it should be and it hurts the economy. people say so what if a hundred mexicans send all there money back to mexico? well it's not just a hundred and people need to see that. i'm not trying to be racist, but i think there needs to be some better control on where our money is going. it doesn't seem like a big deal, but christ it really is. if you wanna argue with me, don't bother. i'm stuborn and set in my ways, and i'll probably just ignore you. well it's 5:30 am and i'm tired, good night. cody
  • thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680
    edited November -1
    I live on the Alabama gulf coast(Roll Tide!),and I've noticed in recent years that there has been an increase in Hispanics in this
    area as well.My father is from Texas,and he commented it's starting
    to look like Houston around here.But,I'm having fun with it though!
    When ever I see a group of migrant workers,I yell out"immagracione"
    and if they take off running,(and most do)they are here illegally.
    And if they don't,they are here legally(or they have nerves of steel).
    It's also an easy way to find out who is hireing illegals!
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    GrandWizzard: Right on the X ring. Rep. Tancredo seems to be one
    of the few with guts enough to ATTEMPT to do anything about it.
    Our laws are our laws, our borders are our borders. They only concern
    U.S. citizens. Seems stange we can become embroiled in a war 3000
    miles from us and not use troops to stop this illegal invasion. If
    one of us broke a gun law like the illegals do to our immigration
    laws, guess which side of the jail bars we would be looking from.
    Is this called "selective law enforcement"??? If we used even only
    10 percent of the aid given to countries that hate us we could easily
    control our borders from illegials and drugs.
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I think If we would send the illegals back to mexico with less than they come here with, they would get the message that they were unwanted and stop coming over the borders.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • ghost614ghost614 Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    grand wizard, i love how you can deny not being racist and yet use the moniker of a KKK member. it's like something straight out of the movies.
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Before everyone starts the well known GB rant of "your a racist because of your user name" This doesn't have anything to do with racism.It has to do with the protection of this country and it's citizens. Didn't we learn anything about lax immigration laws after 9-11"

    He said that the issue at hand had nothing to do with racism.

    Just because the man holds personal views that others disagree with does not automatically make him wrong on all subjects.

    Try adding to the conversation instead of taking childish swipes.



    Stand And Be Counted
  • GrandWizardGrandWizard Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ghost614

    grand wizard, i love how you can deny not being racist and yet use the moniker of a KKK member. it's like something straight out of the movies.

    We have had this debate before. If I remember correctly this user name came from a board game my son and his friend were playing one weekend, Harry Potter I believe. I was trying to dechiper the rules of the game for them and there was a continuing reference to a Grand Wizard. I don't belong to the KKK, never have. I don't know anyone who belongs to the KKK. I once did a paper on the organization some years back but that is the extent of my experience with them.

    So please try not to judge people by a simple user name on a discussion forum.
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    ghost, nobody has accused you of being dead have they?

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I also find humor in your play on words, Deny "not" being racist. I think you are trying to say deny "being" racist. If your gonna rag on someone rag em correctly!

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well then. I stand corrected as well, Wizard.

    However, the spirit of my post still stands. Ghost isn't paying attention to the issue at hand.

    Stand And Be Counted
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,503 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Same Handle, two different sites, same exact post, same date...HHHHHMMMMM only the WIZZ knows for sure....

    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    so he is not the grand wizard??and i thought i had found a friend he he...stir stir

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if i remember right,werernt alot of yall pretty appalled when you found out kofee anon's (sp?)goon squad was roaming the streets of n.y. with mp5's..i dont see much difference here

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DOES ANYONE SEE A DIFFERENCE?????????

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sub:
    What on Earth are you talking about?

    Stand And Be Counted
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Central Indiana has been invaded by the car loads. When stopped and none have legal ID's, the INS is contacted. Will they do anything? NO!
    They tell us to turn them loose. One group of three were caught ripping off Enfamil of all things at Walmart. They use it as part a stew for a drug concoction. They were turned loose. Two weeks later they were caught again. Reason for no charges. Politics, the prosecutor didn't want to be looked at as a racist. GIVE ME A BREAK!
    I don't think he'll see another term as prosecutor.
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    evil,not too long ago i think it was josey could be wrong though,that posted a topic that reported that the u.n.'s secretary general had a private goon squad that escorted him around new york city armed with illegaly imported mp5's.and that they had not aplied for the proper class 3 permits

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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