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The Inevitable

whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Every man born will eventually experience a sense of being absolutely alone and isolated, and with that sense will come a feeling of panic and fear that is capable of stripping your mind bare. It is in that instant, when you know you are going to fail to cope, that you will realize there is something or someone with a higher purpose and station. Your pysche will demand, for its own preservation, that you form an association with that entity. You will know God or you will go insane (hell).

All of us need attention, some need more than others. Organized religion is a coping mechanism, one that allows us to put this higher entity into a labeled box. It's somehow more comfortable if someone else can tell us how to believe, how to act, how to respond; in short, to have a set of rules. And true to nature which abhors a vacuum, we have factions who make it their life work setting these rules for us and enforcing them. And the vast majorities are at peace with this arrangement, worldwide.

I think it follows that the weaker you are in yourself the more dependent you are on organized religion; you depend on others to set the standard, giving you someone to commiserate with when things go awry. The stronger the religion, Mormons, Muslims, (I wish Methodists fit, just for alliteration) Animists for instance, the weaker are the adherents personally. They are not allowed to think or act independently and are most content when the control is the tightest. And of course the leaders are ecstatic, they can do as they please. The reciprocal is apparent, stronger personalities are harder to convince they need organized help to function smoothly.

Going back to point one; we will, one day, need a god. On the subject of God, exactly when we admit that is the only thing that separates us.

Clouder..
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Comments

  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    In some instances you may be correct. A week minded individual is more likely to become a blind follower of the practices and beliefs of those who they call their peirs. I do not however share your conclusion that people who follow "organised" religion are of a week nature. On the contrary, it takes strength, determination, self control and courage for an "individual" to adhear to a belief that is scourned, ridiculed, belittled and attacked by people so many people who do not believe. It is my belief that those who have no beliefs, no laws and no self control lack the character, courage and strength to follow the guidelines set fourth by our creator and they choose the easier path toward sin. They ridicule those who are religious to try to justify their own shortcomings and weaknesses and try to draw as many followers into their way of thinking as they can. A safety in numbers kind of thing. I therfore must conclude the opposite hypothesis, that in fact, those who follow the path of least resistance, which is that of the disbeliever, the ridiculer, those who follow the easy path toward sin and evil are in fact the weaker of the two personalities.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • JBBooksJBBooks Member Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think he may be trying out the Preface of
    a new book.

    JBB

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them.
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you both make excellent points!

    But, 4GodandCountry, if the stronger personality chooses "to adhear to a belief that is scourned, ridiculed, belittled and attacked by people" then why are so many Americans Catholic or at least Christian? Shouldn't many more choose to be Muslim or Buddhist? No, because in reality they are brain-washed at a very young age to become just like their parents.

    I guess I believe in whiteclouder's statement more than yours. I think *most* people are religious because they were taught to be so. Some other choose to be so during young adulthood. Others, like me, research and think about it and, ultimately, make the decision that is the most logical.

    To each his own, though. I won't judge you if you don't judge me! :)

    Just my humble opinion.


    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This thread should be under that religious topic,
    Mr. Nunn might you know where that post scampered off to?

    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
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  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    CG36, I will not judge you but apparently you must have judged me. Your statement seems to reflect your belief that my decision to become a christian was without research, thought and logic. I also can see that you have failed to grasp what it is that I was trying to state. Let me try to pose you with a scenario to help illustrate my rational. [A man, out of work and down on his luck is walking in the park. He sees a man dressed in a suit drop his wallet and walk away. The poor man walks over and picks up the wallet]. What is the harder thing for the poor man to do? Would it be harder to take the wallet full of hundred dollar bills, or return it? Do you get what Im saying now? It is easier to do the wrong thing than the right thing, its easier to choose evil over good.


    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry, you're right on both accounts. First, I did seem to suggest that you chose your belief without research or logic, I didn't mean that, sorry. I meant that my decision was made based on what I perceived as being the more logical choice; that when I was faced with a decision as to whether I believed in God I used everthing I had learned to date (science, physics, biology) to make my decision.

    Second, I do see what you're saying about the "right" choice being the more difficult one to make. I think it would be a lot harder to return the wallet.

    I think I'm probably exactly what you perceive as being weak(er) because if I were that poor guy and I found the wallet full of $100 bills I might have KEPT IT!

    Anyway, I am really NOT against religion, per se. My daughter was baptised not too long ago. But, I do admit it was for my wife, not me. Whatever, I think life is too short to worry about it. If I'm wrong I'll get whats coming to me, no? :)




    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals

    Edited by - concealedG36 on 06/13/2002 14:42:20
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  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ncountry:
    quote:It is my belief that those who have no beliefs, no laws and no self control lack the character, courage and strength to follow the guidelines set fourth by our creator

    First of all, where can I get a signed first edition, please? No compilation, no montage, no anthology; I want the original so I can judge it for myself.

    Second, you are perilously wrong if you think a person who does not share your beliefs is without character, courage, or strength. I stand by my original premise, a person with the weaker constitution needs shoring up and they get it by clinging to what someone else tells them to. That takes no character and very little courage.

    You also make the mistake, my friend, of equating religious to believer and by extension, non-religious to non-believer. You are dead wrong.

    quote: .those who follow.

    I can be faulted for taking those three words out of context but I think they sum up how you feel. Have you ever thought about leading for a change? Try it.

    Clouder..
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  • Jody CommanderJody Commander Member Posts: 855 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Religion IS the opiate of the masses,
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  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Two subjects I will not argue with a man about. The religion he chooses to follow, And what type of dog he chooses to curl up by him. Some things just need to be left the hell alone.

    The most important things, Are not things.
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  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    Clouder, first of all you just read the first edition with the only signature I have on this forum 4G&C.No compilation, no montage, no anthology; so you just judge for yourself. Second of all, if I am wrong, what do I have to loose? However if you are wrong I hope they will allow you to take a lasting supply of ice... Good luck PAL...

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I like to think that when a person seeks God, he is more comfortable with that way of life. That he chooses the goodness and the comfort his soul is looking for. Even evil men know their actions are wrong and at the time of death, some seek forgiveness at their last breath.
    We have the power to choose our direction in life, and to make a commitment to God does take a strengh beyond normality.
    When a person is down on their luck and have no where to turn but to God- could this be God's way of humbling that person in order to get him to seek him out? One must not belong to a religion to be a christian.
    God said to humble yourself as a child to have true faith. We think we are so smart that we can fiqure the truth out about life, when all the while, the answeres (God tells us) are within him.
    We tell our kids to "trust us" as parents, as we know better, and though our kids don't understand- they beleive in us. So has God told us the same.
    To me- their is no strenght without God- only a weak and frightened empty soul.
    **These are my beleives and you certainly are intitled to yours without any judgement from me.
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I like to think that when a person seeks God, he is more comfortable with that way of life. That he chooses the goodness and the comfort his soul is looking for. Even evil men know their actions are wrong and at the time of death, some seek forgiveness at their last breath.
    We have the power to choose our direction in life, and to make a commitment to God does take a strengh beyond normality.
    When a person is down on their luck and have no where to turn but to God- could this be God's way of humbling that person in order to get him to seek him out? One must not belong to a religion to be a christian.
    God said to humble yourself as a child to have true faith. We think we are so smart that we can fiqure the truth out about life, when all the while, the answeres (God tells us) are within him.
    We tell our kids to "trust us" as parents, as we know better, and though our kids don't understand- they beleive in us. So has God told us the same.
    To me- their is no strenght without God- only a weak and frightened empty soul.
    **These are my beleives and you certainly are intitled to yours without any judgement from me.
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I like to think that when a person seeks God, he is more comfortable with that way of life. That he chooses the goodness and the comfort his soul is looking for. Even evil men know their actions are wrong and at the time of death, some seek forgiveness at their last breath.
    We have the power to choose our direction in life, and to make a commitment to God does take a strengh beyond normality.
    When a person is down on their luck and have no where to turn but to God- could this be God's way of humbling that person in order to get him to seek him out? One must not belong to a religion to be a christian.
    God said to humble yourself as a child to have true faith. We think we are so smart that we can fiqure the truth out about life, when all the while, the answeres (God tells us) are within him.
    We tell our kids to "trust us" as parents, as we know better, and though our kids don't understand- they beleive in us. So has God told us the same.
    To me- their is no strenght without God- only a weak and frightened empty soul.
    **These are my beleives and you certainly are intitled to yours without any judgement from me.
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  • AntiqueDrAntiqueDr Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do not confuse 'religious' with 'religion.' It is perfectly possible, in fact in many cases preferable, to be devoutly religious in one's own belief without subscribing to an organized 'religion.' Unfortunately, many subscribers to the various organized religions develop an 'us vs them' mentality that proves the hypocracy inherent in the design.





    We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson.Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
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  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    AntiqueDr.
    I agree with you, I believe each man who reads the bible should gather their own conclusions as to the meaning or the intent of what is being said. The only time I take offense to another persons interpretation is when they take something out of context and try to twist it into some perverted view. I dont push my views on others, Im certainly not an evangelist though some of the people may think differently. I will however stand my ground and never back down standing up for what I believe in. If someone starts a thread on a forum that they know will offend other members then they should expect the other group or individual to defend their own personal beliefs shouldn't they? I know I would. I started one awhile back when I first started coming in here about camel jockeys just to see how many liberals would show their colors. To my suprise I was flooded by lispy responses and chastised for my insensativity. I know Im opinionated, stubborn, tempermental and sometimes rude. It must be the Viking blood thats running through my veins. I don't like liars, can't stand politicians, most lawyers and insurance people because I believe they are all thieves. If Im proven wrong I will admit it, and if I say or do wrong I will appologise. I stand for what I believe is right, teach my children to respect their elders and believe that God will judge me for what I have done when the time comes. I love my country, my family, and my God and will "defend" them with my life if need be. The way I see it, I wont change, you wont change and they wont change so lets leave it be. Anyway Im gonna do like Forrest Gump cause thats about all I got to say about that.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • tin22tin22 Member Posts: 731 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I must say reading this posted today was interesting. You all have intersting views on the subject, and I enjoyed reading it. I agree on some of things you said and disagree on others, but overall I loved your points.
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  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry -

    I've been wrong before and it's possible that i am wrong here, ......... but, it seems likely that Clouder was not casting aspersions on you possibly having multiple names on this forum.

    I think that he was making a comment on the Bible not actually being physically written by God, Himself. I believe the key phrase to look for was where you said "... the guidelines set forth by our Creator".
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  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    AntiqueDr...you have hit on what I feel may be part of the problem regarding today's society.I think that not enough people know the difference between being "religious" and "spiritual".Just because someone goes to the church of their choice does not mean that they are spiritual,only religious.I think we all know someone who is that way.I know a preacher who is also a used car dealer and if you make the same mistake I did and buy a car from him,you will find out about his "spirituality" when it breaks down the next week.Buyer beware because all he cares about is money,not honesty.It seems that preaching and honesty do not always go together.

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
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