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is criticizing price 'bad form'?

GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
I was on another board last night (yes, I kind of felt like I was cheating on all of you guys. I had to take a shower afterwards :-) and there you can post messages and sell if you want. One guy posted a rifle for sale and someone replied that it was way too high given the ability to buy a new one. Someone else said it was generally considered 'bad form' to criticize someone elses price. I was floored! I guess I didn't think the price of a rifle was sacred and couldn't be commented on. What's this world coming to?
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Comments

  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    My personal view is this: I don't appreciate people who criticize my pricing. If you can't afford it or think it is overpriced, don't buy it. If the price is too high I'll figure it out by the fact that it does not sell. Then I can make the decision to lower my price or simply keep the item.
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  • jdb123jdb123 Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well with all due respect to admin. Hell yes its ok to criticize a sellers price, these sellers need to be clued in every once in a a while that selling a used gun or whatever for more than what its "worth" is fine but you will be called on it. they want some moron to come along and pay out the * for something they know little about. just ask the a-holes at the pawn shops who sell norinco sks's for $350. most of these "sellers" are content with hardly ever selling anything, they're happy enough when they really doop someone. by the way anyone who thinks this is whining can shut the hell up.
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jdb must be having a bad day. If you think an item is overpriced just ignore it. You aren't being forced to bid.
    PC=BS
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  • jdb123jdb123 Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    badboy yes you are right i should ignore it but then i could not have "vented" up top. and what fun is that?
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    I don't know about what is proper etiquette, but I generally don't like anyone telling me my price is too high. Making a serious offer under my asking is OK.Actually, I guess it depends on the tone of the message."Hey, you are way too high here. I can get it $20 cheaper at XXXX." Not so good.At a gun show: "I'm not being critical, but I noticed a similar item over at XXXX for $XX. Just thought you'd like to know." This is helpful information, even though it its often incorrect. It causes me to go and check it out, and maybe adjust.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    I agree with Nunn - it's all in the way you put it. I think a seller gets the hint when they get offers (with in reason for the firearm) but nobody buys. I have asked why - on occassion - is this particular firearm worth more than a similar model or year, then listen to their reasoning. Sometimes I learn things I don't know - but more often than not they are trying to gouge the uninformed. I have found that most dealers at a show that are reasonable with their pricing - do not mind a few questions about pricing. Those that have everything priced high, usually have some really good stories.
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i fail to see the difference between guns & cars as far as telling a seller his prices are to high, and i allways tell-em if i feel they are. to each his own. barto
    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why criticize? If someone thinks a price is too high they should just offer what they are willing to pay, I think thats the polite way to criticize. Also, the person who says the price is too high may be wrong about the price. Last weekend I took a pistol to the gunshow, while I was looking for my dealer friend I was approached by several people who offered me $200 -250 and one guy said the 325 I was asking was way too high. After giving the gun to my friend he sold it in 30 minutes for $350.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    I don't think it's appropriate to be critical of someone's prices in public. Even the big dealers differ dramatically in prices between items sometimes. One dealer will have one thing higher than the other, but be lower on soemthing else. Big deal. This is free enterprise. People who cry about what someone wants for something based on the fact that it is less somewhere else are fundamentally crybaby communist who don't understand what free enterprise is all about.I'm often asked if I can beat so-and-sos price on an item. Most often my response is I can't beat their price, but considering they want $9.00 or $10.00 for "P&H" and I ship for free, small orders from me will be MUCH lower than the other guys.And there's such a thing as service and standing behind your product, not to mention the knowledge to answer detailed questions about the product. Such things can make all the difference in the world in making a happy customer. There are several very reputable dealers who have prices much higher that others, but they stay in business because they are very good in the quality service department. Those sorts of things count for a lot.People who only consider the raw price of an item are overlooking some very important factors and should keep their mouths shut.
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Generally it seems like it's one of two ways. Either an item is like $50 overpriced or $150 overpriced. The first means bargaining room for the seller, and the buyer will probably pay a respected price. But with the second the seller is greedy. He's either waiting for an idiot with a wad of cash (and there's definately some out there) or he's just interested in seeing plenty of people just window shop. I wouldn't actively walk up to the guy and tell him his price isn't even realistic, but if a conversation starts with him or one of my friends ask me about it, it's fair game.[This message has been edited by GreenLantern (edited 03-07-2002).]
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys, I bought and sold used cars for 35 years as a hobby. I think the answer to the original question depends if you are really interested in buying the item. Now if you aren't, then saying "I wouldn't give you that much for it, plus your daughter" would be OK. If you have an interest in buying, something like "I really like this, but it's just a bit out of my price range" gets the negotiation started. I've had jerks tear down my cars and make a stupid offer that pi**ed me off so much that I wouldn't have sold them at my asking price. Just something that has worked for me.
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • jujujuju Member Posts: 6,321 ✭
    edited November -1
    I dont comment much around here, mostly just lurk. But I for one appreciate it when I see a post that tells me an item may be selling for to much money. I buy and sell guns a lot. Buy em, shoot em, and trade em or sell em. I know I should keep em but thats me. I have been told that my price was too high on some occasions (never to low though). I think it helps the novice or newcomer get a more accurate picture of what a particular weapon may be worth. Only effective if the person doing the "price adjustment" is knowledgeable themselves. So I guess it cuts both ways. Lot of folks will take advantage of people if you let em.(also both ways) Just my .02 Feel free to flame away.
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  • biggunrbiggunr Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think that Greenlantern nailed it. I was at a show last weekend where a dealer had a carbine, new, that retails for around $250. His price was way over that, obviously just waiting for someone with more money than brains. I think that makes the rest of us look bad and the dealer should (and this one was) be told so.
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  • biggunrbiggunr Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think that Greenlantern nailed it. I was at a show last weekend where a dealer had a carbine, new, that retails for around $250. His price was way over that, obviously just waiting for someone with more money than brains. I think taht makes the rest of us look bad and the dealer should (and this one was) be told so.
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  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Say I buy one gun from a distributor for $100plus $20 shipping and sell it for $140.The purchaser then goes to GunK where they purchased 100 guns from the same distributor for $80 each plus free shippingand sell them for $120 each. GunK make $40profit and my customer gripes because he thinks I made $60. In reality I made only$20. Not every dealer is ripping you off.Buy or don't buy, but try to play nice guys.Loudmouths and blowhards don't earn discounts or respect.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree that negotiation may require a discussion of price. On the other hand, if I find a great buy I don't need to dicker, and if I find an outrageous price I'll just move along, usually. I know that unless the price is close to what I want to pay I have very little chance of getting the seller into my idea of a reasonable price range.I would not make a general rule about something like this; I trust my judgment to handle the thing properly by now. I know, I think, when to just walk away. At a gun show, sometimes prices are negotiable. At a dealer, they often are not. If I see a newcomer to the game who is about to get taken, I may put a quiet word into a buyer's ear if I think it will be really helpful. I once spoke to a young couple who went into the "wrong" store in North Hollywood looking for their first home defense gun. When they discovered I was willing to help they asked me some questions and I directed them down the street to one of the best gun dealers in the Valley for some knowledgable help, and a better price. I felt good about that. On the other hand, it's not my job to make loud comments about some dealer's stock over a table at a gun show. If I'm right about his price being too high, all I have to do is walk down a few tables and find the same merchandise reasonable. Then again, my idea of a reasonable price may go against the current market on some out of production stuff, and I may have to wait a while for prices to come back down, if they will. Patience often saves me money in this business.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A late friend who just happened to be a retired gunsmith used to have a saying."It's worth whatever the next owner is willing to pay for it" I've found a lot of truth in that saying, and always consider it when buying. I've been known to overpay for something that I really like. I usually have no intention of ever selling said item, so it's value to me is based on the pleasure I'll derive from owning it.The best way to critisize someones asking price is with cash in hand. Offer what you think it's worth, if it's not enough let him/her keep it.WOODS
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i recently tore off a mudflap from my toyota.went to dealer to get a replacement & was informed they were $66 each.i cant believe ANYONE could walk away from that without some sort of comment(mine being that i didnt want to make a payment, only buy a flap). the uptight sob said take it or leave it so i left it. still felt good to vent, though.
    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • Old hickoryOld hickory Member Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey juju! Glad to see you're still around. I enjoyed your soul baring diatribe that you gave last October. We all need to do that every once in a while
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  • jujujuju Member Posts: 6,321 ✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Old Hickory, I never left really, I just lurk. I enjoy the give and take that goes on around here. Some good folks. I am surprised that you remember that post. I kept most of the responses to it. Seems I am not the only one that has reflected on the past. Well this is more posting than I normally do in a year, so I better get back to what I do best, lurking.You folks play nice and share your ammo
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems to me that buying cars or guns or scopes is essentially an adversarial situation. Not hostile, but adversarial. Mr. Nunn is not likely to appreciate my offer much if I say, "WoW, $200? I can buy them new for half that, I'll give you $30 for that old beat up one." I think most car dealers are essentially thieves, but starting the dicker with that statement is not likely to get me the best price. If Mr. Nunn wants a fair profit, and I want a fair price we can likely get to gether. If he wants a 500% mark up and I want to steal it from him, likely we cannot get together. It is basically a question of diplomacy, and as a buyer it is in my best interest not to seriously tick off the seller. Besides, I may want to do business with him again in the future, or I may discover he is a really interesting guy, and we may become friends. Not gonna happen if I start out telling him he doesn't know what he is doing.
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  • BlokeyBlokey Member Posts: 284 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I too have been known to pay more than what a lot of people would pay for a gun that I really want, but like what's been said before, an item is worth what someone is willing to pay.BTW Saxon Pig: I won't make an offer of $25K for your 1911 because I know I can't afford it.
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  • MFIMFI Member Posts: 7,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We are always willing to "dicker" on prices here in our shop. It really makes a difference on the way you present your "offer" though, some guys are down right jerks about prices. These are the same guys who come in and compare my prices to *MART then buy everything at the *MART and then want to sell it to us when they need money, I love these guys. We are a family run business and offer a fair price for the product,if you dont like my price make a reasonable offer and we'll probably take it. As some of you guys have said before though something is "worth" what a customer will pay for it.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, it's like when you put an item in your local classified newspaper and you get these calls from people whose first words are, "What is you' rock-bottom price for dat?" I'd say "your daughter," but I'm afraid what she might look like. Oh, be-HAVE.
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  • YankeeClipperYankeeClipper Member Posts: 669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another thing to remember is if you want it and he drops the price and you were derogatory about the high price the seller won't call you.
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  • Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I WENT TO A GUN SHOW IN KNOXVILLE TWO WEEKS AGO,TOLD A GUY HE WAS A GOOD BIT MORE EXPENSIVE ON AN ITEM THAN SOMEONE DOWN ON THE OTHER END OF THE BUILDING WOULD HE COME DOWN.I DID THIS POLITELY AND PRIVATELY.HE RESPONDED BY GETTING MAD AND TELLING ME IF I DIDNT LIKE HIS PRICE GO BUY IT SOMEWHERE ELSE,NOT SO QUIETLY OR POLITELY.SO I SAID AS LOUD AS I COULD THAT SO AND SO DOWN ON THE OTHER SIDE WAS CHEAPER THAN HE WAS ON A LOT OF STUFF AND WATCHED WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SATISFACTION AS SEVERAL SHOPPERS WENT TOWARD THE OTHER END OF THE BUILDING.I THINK IT IS PROPER ETTIQUETTE TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT PRIVATELY,BUT WHEN SOMEONE HAS THE COURTESY TO DO THAT YOU SHOULD NOT GET SO DISRESPECTFUL
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    JBD123, bite me you ignorant, imbesol. Just HOW long have YOU owned a pawn shop??
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I see something in which I'm interested priced substantially higher than I would expect, my approach varies. If everything on the table / in the shop is above normal retail, I will sometimes make a tactful inquiry along the lines of SP's, but if I get the vibes that the owner is an arrogant rip-off artist, either I'll put it down w/o comment & walk, or slip in some sort of a verbal needle, from mild to extremely, offensively, sarcastic, depending my mood & my assessment of the management (the bigger the 'hole, the more vicious the comment). I figure those out to screw the customer deserve elevated blood pressure! When dealing w/ such specimens, my nick should be "Misanthrope!" The other scenario is when someone seems genuinely clueless /misinformed. In which case, I'll diplomatically (really, guys, I can be!) suggest a more realistic price, with supporting evidence. Usually this is on line, and maybe 90% of the time the data is taken in the spirit in which it was given. I figure anyone too thin-skinned to accept commentary about pricing shouldn't be in retail sales. I've had a few tire kickers at shows whom I've told to go away and not come back - or, when they asked for breaks, offered them the merchandise at 2x to 10x the tag, but they are the repeat PITAs who come in year after year and try to 'steal' the same items year after year. I know my items and my prices - both are good, what I would be willing to pay myself if I were buying at retail, and I'm a cheap Scot Yankee!
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  • Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    EXACTLY MY POINT ICON
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't mind the pricing so much,but the same ad for MONTHS drives me to anger. http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=3396079 has been here every week forever.Comes up on my twice weekly preban search everytime.cpermd
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  • songdogsongdog Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    cpermd- If you would just buy the dang thing and give one of them to me and you keep the other you would not need to woory about it popping up anymore.songdog
    Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Carl,Know exactly what you mean; 75% of the listings under "Collectible Ammo" are the same tired items, week after week. One would think that if an item did not sell, after a while the seller would reduce the price to the realm of reality or give up. There are some lots I've seen re-listed weekly for two+ years w/o a sale here and on another website. I've trained myself to ignore them (as, apparently, have the rest of the buying public!) but it sure seems like a waste of electricity after a while.Prime example: http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=3395360 When was the last time anyone saw this ammo sell for $40 a box? Outside of their wet dreams, that is? I can pick it up for $10 a box at gun shows and pass at that price.
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  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I too wonder about the items that come up on my search list constantly and never get a bid. I think it may be the seller's dream of catching the newbie or idiot who does not know the current market and making a killing.Seecamps come to mind. Over the years, I was always on the waiting list and could make a big profit on each one I finally got. However, now they are readily available and do not bring list sometimes. Yet, some keep asking big prices. It really makes me jelous that one sold recently for a big price to someone who apparently did not know the current market! I think that feeling drives many to stay with the too high prices since it does not cost anything to keep listing. Maybe if there were a charge for relisting after the fourth time, etc., things would change. I think there may be some who are just trying to get an appraisal on their item. If someone has an item he or she thinks may be worth $300 to $500, but is not sure, that person can just put it on auction with a $1500 reserve and see how high the bids go. The high bid will then be instructive as to the value. However, if someone bids $1500, the seller will then be tortured thinking it was worth more! Serves them right!There are as many price theories as there are people. Often time those with high prices are doing an ego thing and really do not want to sell.
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  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Alot of good responces above.However,I prepare myself for show visits in the following manner.I decide what I will look for and pay according to the "Blue Book of Gun Values" and try not to stray too far from it's suggested price for a given condition.I am still learning to judge condition.I feel that if that book is good enough for the NRA,it is good enough for me.I will not buy from an auction site because frankly,I don't trust most people to tell me what condition their gun is.If I cannot hold it I will not buy it.
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