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Military 9mm Replaced By
grumpygy
Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
another 9mm.
quote:LAS VEGAS -- The U.S. Army on Thursday awarded Sig Sauer a contract worth $580 million to make the next service pistol based on the company's P320 handgun.
Sig Sauer beat out Glock Inc., FN America and Beretta USA, the maker of the current M9 9mm service pistol, in the competition for the Modular Handgun System, or MHS, program.
"We are both humbled and proud that the P320 was selected by the U.S. Army as its weapon of choice," Ron Cohen, chief executive officer of Sig Sauer, said in a statement to Military.com here at SHOT Show, the world's largest gun show, taking place this week in the city.
"Securing this contract is a testimony to Sig Sauer employees, their commitment to innovation, quality and manufacturing the most reliable firearms in the world," Cohen added.
The 10-year agreement calls for Sig to supply the Army with full-size and compact versions of the gun. The pistols can be outfitted with silencers and accommodate standard and extended capacity magazines. The firearms will be manufactured at the company's facilities in New Hampshire.
The Army launched its long-awaited XM17 MHS competition in late August 2015 to replace its Cold War-era M9 9mm pistol.
"By maximizing full and open competition across our industry partners, we have optimized private sector advancements in handguns, ammunition and magazines, and the end result will ensure a decidedly superior weapon system for our warfighters," Army Acquisition Executive Steffanie Easter said said in a press release.
One of the major goals of the effort was to adopt a pistol chambered for a more potent round than the current 9mm. The U.S. military replaced the .45 caliber 1911 pistol with the M9 in 1985 and began using the 9mm NATO round at that time.
In their statements, Army and Sig officials didn't specify what caliber the new Sig Sauer pistol will be.
Sig touts the P320 model product as "modular" and "adaptable," with interchangeable grips, multiple sizes and calibers that can be converted between 9mm, .357SIG and .40SGW. "From calibers, to pistol size, to the grip fit best suited for the shooter, the P320 is the most adaptable pistol available today," the company says in promotional materials.
Two sources confirmed to Military.com that Sig submitted to the Army .40-caliber and 9mm pistols for consideration. One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version.
Shortly after the contract announcement, Sig officials celebrated here at the show. Staff at the Sig Sauer booth set out champagne flutes for a celebratory toast.
The Army in December down-selected to two finalists for the competition: Sig and Glock, which had submitted its Glock 17 and Glock 19 models for consideration. Given the size of the contract, Glock is widely expected to protest the decision.
Brandie Collins, communications manager for Glock, said she had not been briefed on the contract award but wished the winners well.
Army officials informed Beretta USA and FN America at the show that they had been dropped from the competition in the recent down-select decision, according to a service source who is not authorized to speak to the press. But confusion reigned as reporters informed company officials of the Army's announcement.
The decision formally ends the Beretta's 30-year hold on the Army's sidearm market.
Gabrielle de Plano, vice president of Beretta Defense Technologies marketing and operations, said staff were still reading through the contract announcement to fully understand it.
"It's going to have to be a no comment from us for now," he said.
Beretta has fought hard to remain to remain the Army's pistol maker. In December 2014, Beretta USA submitted its modernized M9A3 as a possible alternative to the Army's Modular Handgun System program.
But the Army rejected the improved M9A3, which featured new sights, a rail for mounting lights and accessories, better ergonomics and improved reliability. The company, however, wasn't finished yet. It developed a new striker-fired pistol, the APX, and entered it into the competition.
Kristina DeMilt, public relations for FN, said officials at the show hadn't been informed of the award and were not immediately prepared to comment.
The Army began working with the small arms industry on Modular Handgun System in early 2013, but the joint effort has been in the works for more than five years. It could result in the Defense Department buying nearly 500,000 new pistols.
Current plans call for the Army to purchase more than 280,000 handguns, according to Program Executive Office Soldier officials. The Army also plans to buy approximately 7,000 sub-compact versions of the handgun.
The other military services participating in the program may order an additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.
"As MHS moves forward into operational testing, the due diligence taken by all of the stakeholders will ensure a program that remains on-budget and on-schedule," Easter said.
Lawmakers may be eager to hear such an assessment.
quote:LAS VEGAS -- The U.S. Army on Thursday awarded Sig Sauer a contract worth $580 million to make the next service pistol based on the company's P320 handgun.
Sig Sauer beat out Glock Inc., FN America and Beretta USA, the maker of the current M9 9mm service pistol, in the competition for the Modular Handgun System, or MHS, program.
"We are both humbled and proud that the P320 was selected by the U.S. Army as its weapon of choice," Ron Cohen, chief executive officer of Sig Sauer, said in a statement to Military.com here at SHOT Show, the world's largest gun show, taking place this week in the city.
"Securing this contract is a testimony to Sig Sauer employees, their commitment to innovation, quality and manufacturing the most reliable firearms in the world," Cohen added.
The 10-year agreement calls for Sig to supply the Army with full-size and compact versions of the gun. The pistols can be outfitted with silencers and accommodate standard and extended capacity magazines. The firearms will be manufactured at the company's facilities in New Hampshire.
The Army launched its long-awaited XM17 MHS competition in late August 2015 to replace its Cold War-era M9 9mm pistol.
"By maximizing full and open competition across our industry partners, we have optimized private sector advancements in handguns, ammunition and magazines, and the end result will ensure a decidedly superior weapon system for our warfighters," Army Acquisition Executive Steffanie Easter said said in a press release.
One of the major goals of the effort was to adopt a pistol chambered for a more potent round than the current 9mm. The U.S. military replaced the .45 caliber 1911 pistol with the M9 in 1985 and began using the 9mm NATO round at that time.
In their statements, Army and Sig officials didn't specify what caliber the new Sig Sauer pistol will be.
Sig touts the P320 model product as "modular" and "adaptable," with interchangeable grips, multiple sizes and calibers that can be converted between 9mm, .357SIG and .40SGW. "From calibers, to pistol size, to the grip fit best suited for the shooter, the P320 is the most adaptable pistol available today," the company says in promotional materials.
Two sources confirmed to Military.com that Sig submitted to the Army .40-caliber and 9mm pistols for consideration. One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version.
Shortly after the contract announcement, Sig officials celebrated here at the show. Staff at the Sig Sauer booth set out champagne flutes for a celebratory toast.
The Army in December down-selected to two finalists for the competition: Sig and Glock, which had submitted its Glock 17 and Glock 19 models for consideration. Given the size of the contract, Glock is widely expected to protest the decision.
Brandie Collins, communications manager for Glock, said she had not been briefed on the contract award but wished the winners well.
Army officials informed Beretta USA and FN America at the show that they had been dropped from the competition in the recent down-select decision, according to a service source who is not authorized to speak to the press. But confusion reigned as reporters informed company officials of the Army's announcement.
The decision formally ends the Beretta's 30-year hold on the Army's sidearm market.
Gabrielle de Plano, vice president of Beretta Defense Technologies marketing and operations, said staff were still reading through the contract announcement to fully understand it.
"It's going to have to be a no comment from us for now," he said.
Beretta has fought hard to remain to remain the Army's pistol maker. In December 2014, Beretta USA submitted its modernized M9A3 as a possible alternative to the Army's Modular Handgun System program.
But the Army rejected the improved M9A3, which featured new sights, a rail for mounting lights and accessories, better ergonomics and improved reliability. The company, however, wasn't finished yet. It developed a new striker-fired pistol, the APX, and entered it into the competition.
Kristina DeMilt, public relations for FN, said officials at the show hadn't been informed of the award and were not immediately prepared to comment.
The Army began working with the small arms industry on Modular Handgun System in early 2013, but the joint effort has been in the works for more than five years. It could result in the Defense Department buying nearly 500,000 new pistols.
Current plans call for the Army to purchase more than 280,000 handguns, according to Program Executive Office Soldier officials. The Army also plans to buy approximately 7,000 sub-compact versions of the handgun.
The other military services participating in the program may order an additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.
"As MHS moves forward into operational testing, the due diligence taken by all of the stakeholders will ensure a program that remains on-budget and on-schedule," Easter said.
Lawmakers may be eager to hear such an assessment.
Comments
What's wrong with the Beretta? I have a 92FS and it is a great pistol.
Kind of my point they were complaining that the 9mm had no stopping power and what do they do go with another 9mm.
Where do you get where it will be a 9mm??
From everything I have heard and read. It will be a modular system that can be switched between 9mm, .357 sig and .40 cal..
Of course GLOKE will protest and appeal. They are the liberal Democrats of the gun world. SIG won fair and square but GLOKE will not take this lying down, by golly!!!! [xx(]
SIG Perfection!!!!
Of course GLOKE will protest and appeal. They are the liberal Democrats of the gun world. SIG won fair and square but GLOKE will not take this lying down, by golly!!!! [xx(]
My choice for a change would have been a .45ACP, preferably a Sig.
For what it's worth, put a thumb safety on a Glock .45ACP and that would work for me, too.[8D]
Perfection? The 226MK wouldn't even function after being dropped in the dirt. Oh no! Dropped in the dirt...then picked up and fired? Maybe you should wipe them off? The SIG was a better platform than the Beretta...but the Beretta came in at less $$$ per unit.
And I seem to recall that the big reason most people don't like piston ARs is that they say "if you just lube them [direct impingement] and keep them clean they are fine".
So...how's that "dropped in the dirt" argument for you?
What's wrong with the Beretta? I have a 92FS and it is a great pistol.
Metal not plastic. I wouldn't trade my Beretta compact for any sig plastic gun.
SigArms in Exeter, New Hampshire already makes guns here....
That would piss everbody off!!![:D][:D][:D]
quote:Originally posted by Navybat
quote:Originally posted by SG
Perfection? The 226MK wouldn't even function after being dropped in the dirt.
Grumpygy..
Where do you get where it will be a 9mm??
From everything I have heard and read. It will be a modular system that can be switched between 9mm, .357 sig and .40 cal..
One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version.
whats not to love ?
fyi they stayed with 9mm due to nato , does not matter if it is modular or not, they cannot use .40s&w or .357sig
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
What's wrong with the Beretta? I have a 92FS and it is a great pistol.
Metal not plastic. I wouldn't trade my Beretta compact for any sig plastic gun.
Seriously, what SIG plastic pistols have you fired?
I know your passion for accuracy.
Can't imagine how you are not a fan.
I think it has quality issues personally.
The Beretta 17 round version gives plenty of rounds.
The Glock would work
A sig 1911 would be a better choice
Hopefully ol Trumper will put a stop to that BS.
The 9mmnato is a capable cartridge. Remeber most 9mm rounds we purchase commercialy are pretty well under loaded. Unfortunately per military sophisticated we use only fmj which does not allow the 9mm to deliver to its best potential. Fact is, we use sidearms much less in combat now that are standard issue long arm is a carbine than in wars past. And 9mm is cheap.
This does not mean it is necessarily the best choice..I myself prefer the 45acp.
The US military trained me to shoot an M14 rifle so that the enemy buzzards wouldn't get within pistol range of me. 99.99% of our troops would be well served with a SCCY 9mm. Let the spec ops units special order/modify whatever they need for their objectives. Use the money saved to build new clinics for the VA.
Neal
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
What's wrong with the Beretta? I have a 92FS and it is a great pistol.
Metal not plastic. I wouldn't trade my Beretta compact for any sig plastic gun.
Seriously, what SIG plastic pistols have you fired?
I know your passion for accuracy.
Can't imagine how you are not a fan.
I own plastic guns. I hate them. Only carried because they are lightweight. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 92 Beretta. Someone had some special interest in Washington.
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
Hopefully ol Trumper will put a stop to that BS.
The 9mmnato is a capable cartridge. Remeber most 9mm rounds we purchase commercialy are pretty well under loaded. Unfortunately per military sophisticated we use only fmj which does not allow the 9mm to deliver to its best potential. Fact is, we use sidearms much less in combat now that are standard issue long arm is a carbine than in wars past. And 9mm is cheap.
This does not mean it is necessarily the best choice..I myself prefer the 45acp.
No, I mean the BS of foreigners supplying our military. BAD practice, and bad for America.
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
Grumpygy..
Where do you get where it will be a 9mm??
From everything I have heard and read. It will be a modular system that can be switched between 9mm, .357 sig and .40 cal..
One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version.
Thanks.. I have not read anything lately.
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
Grumpygy..
Where do you get where it will be a 9mm??
From everything I have heard and read. It will be a modular system that can be switched between 9mm, .357 sig and .40 cal..
One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version.
Thanks.. I have not read anything lately.
That was in the Article I posted.
lightweight. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 92 Beretta.
According to numerous accounts from founding members, the first US military unit to field the Beretta 92 was SEAL Team Six. However, due to the extensive use of the pistol by SEAL Team Six (3-5000 rounds per week, per operator), problems that were later evident with other US military users became apparent to SEAL Team Six as slides started breaking and being flung back towards the shooter. After these incidents, the SEALs switched to the SIG-Sauer P226. The P226 later became the standard sidearm for all of the SEAL Teams.
[from publicsafety.wikia.com/wiki/Beretta_92]
When units had a choice they choose something else usually Sigs sometimes HK and lately Glock but I am unaware of units saying "There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 92 Beretta"
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
But, they refused to do so for civilians owning the same pistol. Company line was that the problem was due to the ammo that the US military used, there was nothing wrong with the pistols.
It will be a cold day in heck before I buy another Beretta product.
Neal