In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Snap-on handtools vs. others
pickenup
Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
I have a lot of different brand names in my tool boxes. I USED to use almost only Snap-on, Never had a problem with quality. I bought them UNTIL they closed down their store for retail customers. They told me I would have to call and get the name of a vendor that services my area, make an appointment with him, whenever he is somewhere close to me, etc. Then (if) he has it on the truck I can get what I want. I have broken all brands of tools, Mac, Snap-on, Craftsman, S K, Proto, Husky, as well as others. (Yes, I do use them and I am hard on tools.) I use mostly Craftsman now for this simple reason. I want to be able to drive to Sears and with no cost or questions asked, get a replacement. I do not want to wait until a week from next thursday at 2:00 at uncle Mike's Conoco 15 miles away, to get a tool he (might) have on the truck, to finish a job. I have tried this, once, it took 6 weeks to replace an impact socket I needed. Online ordering is OK if you have the time to wait for delivery, most of the time I need the tool today. I agree with others here, quality is going downhill.
If I knew then, what I know now.
If I knew then, what I know now.
Comments
I own a tool store, where I sell mostly the cheap chinese *. Why? Because that is all that sells here!
I've had nice quality stuff from sears, at 1/2 the price of sears. Couldn't hardly move it. Same with the nice welding stuff made in the USA. I was $40 cheaper than the welding stores for the same kit. Couldn't hardly sell it.
People are just cheap bastards. I have some channel lock stuff, $3-4 CHEAPER than Home Depot, or anywhere else, and people STILL complain about the cost.
Screw'em.
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Almost forgot, I also need a muffler bearing installer.
Heheh....sorry, out of those, but I do have some left-handed smoke-twisters in stock!
Short story:
This kid about 15 years old comes into my store, looking for a "Sky-hook". He said "My boss sent me in here, we need a sky-hook, because we have to lift some stuff."
Well, I DO have a product called "Sky-hook" that is for circular saws, for when you are framing houses.
So, I sold it to him.
Few days later, this guy (the boss) comes in, and is pissed off because I ruined his joke! Hehe........he wanted the $7 back that the kid had spent, too! I refunded him.......but it was still funny as hell.
I could tell "idiot customer" stories all day long.
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
If I knew then, what I know now.
Edited by - pickenup on 05/16/2002 21:50:21
I've broken tools also...mostly because I misused them, screw drivers for prybars, hardened chrome sockets on an impact, cheater bars on ratchets and wrenches, not oiling air tools, burning up drill bits that were used at too high RPM....have I missed anything?....never had a problem with replacement on any of the brands.
What probably needs to be defined here is the difference between "Professional use" and "home use". Most of the professionals I know usually have $15,000-$60,000 worth of tools and have been doing it for 10-30 years. Home handymen are not going to put "hours of use & abuse" on their tools that these folks will. Craftsman and Chinese tools will do the job in the short term, they rarely hold up for everyday punishment. When you walk into a garage the mechanic who is the most knowlegeable, makes the most money, and does the best work will not be working out of a Benchtop tool box with Chinese made tools. More than likely, he's the fellow with the biggest tool box full of tools not found in the home handymans arsenal.
Don't misunderstand my point...I have no problem with those who choose to buy Craftsman, SK, Proto, Chinese, or any other tool....but comparing them as having the same quality as Snap-On (with Snap-On being just overpriced and same quality) is like comparing a Jennings to a Wilson Combat handgun....I dare say, you probably don't know what your talking about...
I'm not sure if the remark about Chinese tools was directed at me, but I never implied that they were better than Snap-on. There ARE Chinese tools that are just as good as Snap-on or Crafstman, but you'll pay about the same for them. You won't find these in the states, but I saw them in Hong Kong.
The tools I sell are crap, for the most part. I tried to sell "the good stuff" and about went broke........
Give the people what they want, thats my motto!
Oh......many craftsman tools are made in the same plant as Snap-on, and by the same company. I don't know if the actual steel is better or not, but I know they are sometimes made in the same place.
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
With all due respect, Snap-On is not made in the same factory as Craftsman, just a myth. You might want to research Snap-On a little on the web or talk to a dealer. Snap-On is soul owner of their own foundries and factories...these are located in Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Tennesee, Massachusetts, Canada, and Mexico. That's how they maintain quality control.
Unlike Snap-On, Craftsman and other low budget companies have their tools built by a number of different manufacturers....they submit their specs to half a dozen companies and take the low bidder. You could even have a complete line of "Merc" tools made buy doing the same thing.
Example: Snap-on tools boxes are built at Snap-On's factory in Algona, Iowa....some of Craftsman's tool boxes are built by Waterloo Industries in Waterloo, Iowa...other models are built by different companies.
Your comment about people not willing to buy the quality tools is probably true for the clients coming into your store.....but there are people who will buy quality, they are generally the people who use these tools professionally...not off the street consumers who know nothing about tools. Go to a construction site and ask guys why they buy Hilti?..because they want quality and are willing to pay for it. My guess is you're not dealing with proffesionals...just the home handymen.
Snap-On knows there is a market for the price conscious...they also make an economy line of handtools that are identical in strength to the chrome models only in a cheaper black oxidized finish. This is primarily what the U.S. Gov. buys....Oh yes, did I mention that Snap-On is one of the few that meet or exceed mil specs for certain gov contracts? Check out their web site for more info....take care.
Hmmm......well, ok. I was told that by a former Snap-on guy, who had retired. Maybe he was full of it, I don't know.
Like one guy said, "I don't care if I buy something and it breaks, I have to buy shoes for my kids, I just want something that'll work for a few months"
Go figure.
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
I was a Snap-On Dealer for 4 years.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Unfortunately when one makes a general statement, it implies a line drawn in the sand...you're either this or that. The point I was making should be taken in general terms, sure there are exceptions....As a general rule professionals do buy the better quality tools than the home handiman would. Take for example people that are in the lawncare business....they use commercial quality mowers as opposed to what you and I would use, why? because the light duty ones won't hold up. Same with tools or any other product you'd care to insert. By the same token, there are many non-professionals who purchase quality beyond their needs....for myself, I'm a quality freak....I like the best of a particular product, price be damned. Of course I did compromise on my vehicles.....had to pass on the Rolls Royce and get a Chevy. To me, Snap-On Tools compared to other brands would be like someone telling you Harley Davidson is the same as Yamaha.....you see my point?
Snap-On.
The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!
Now, if they are in the store buying made-in-Taiwan tools, well...that means they damn sure know nothing about tools.
I DO have a few SnapOn tools but no complete sets of anything. I used to work for a refinery maintenance contractor and I, uh, borrowed a lot of tools from Shell and Texaco. They used to buy nothing but SnapOn, Mac, Proto and Armstrong. I still haven't figured out what to do with these 3 inch impact sockets.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Edited by - Lowrider on 05/17/2002 01:22:32
If I knew then, what I know now.
Merc (Even the good stuff coming out of China still isn't that great.....)
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
I need to look for typos before posting. All the mistakes I made in this one are embarassing
Edited by - 7mm nut on 05/17/2002 16:28:07
Edited by - 7mm nut on 05/17/2002 16:30:12
Only natural to feel you made the best choice and are the wisest on a particilar topic. Whether the topic be tools, guns, politics, cars, etc....I look on all of you as good friends and enjoy the interaction...wish we could all meet some day and have these conversations in person. Gotta run and get to work.....Rembrandt
-Charlie the dirty old man
"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com
Fire Away..............
GOT GUNS?
You are correct, our mechanics are using Snap-On. The fellow in our tool room has been telling me recently, as a matter of fact, how much a pain in the butt it is getting them to replace stuff we break, because the first thing they try to do is tell you how you must have abused it, since it broke. Sure this is just one guy, but you see, everyone has their own experiences. Also, the tool breaks, I need another, and guess what, even the military has to wait for the darn truck to show up, meanwhile I got a wheel waiting to go back on a truck, useless. I've also used these tools for long periods of time, and havent put them through a lot, and had them break. I said, long time, not a lot of use. I've had my tools longer, Craftsman, and used them less, so I know what you mean about the pro. vs. the tinkerer. Fact remains though, the Snap-On doesnt always take a lot either. I personally am ticked that the military uses Snap-On. Its a waste of money, your money, and my money. I could easily go out to the Sears store and get a Craftsman replaced in 30 minutes, instead of waiting a week. On the flip side of this, we use to have a lot of cheap stuff in the tool room, before the switch to Snap-On, and guess what, it lasted just as long. Funny thing too, mil-spec really means: tough enough to last until our budget passes, to replace whats broke! I guess its like another post said, some mechanics are like sheep, doing what the others are doing. Like the fellows I use to work with, they all had Kennedy tool boxes, cost a heck of a lot, and didnt do a thing that my Craftsman box wouldnt, and for that matter, I like the Stack-On boxes too, and they're so much cheaper than a Craftsman box, you're an idiot to buy a Craftsman, let alone Snap-On or Kennedy.
One more thing, isnt Stanley the parent company of Snap-On? Think I heard it here on the net, is that true? If it is, thats a whole nother can of worms then, isnt it?
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
TOOLS
MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Since Snap-On had the patent, no one else could bid on these tool contracts since their sockets and wrenches couldn't meet the spec. I believe the patent has since expired and a number of other companies now have the same feature. This is why a Snap-On sockets or wrenchs could be put on a rounded off bolt head and still remove it.
Snap-On is not a subsidiary of Stanley...check out the stock market listings and you will find they are each their own entity. Stanley does own Mac Tools.
Snap-On tools that are made for the military contracts are not warrantied....These tools have a black oxidized finish and no warranty to reduce cost in order to meet contract guidelines. If you look closely, you will also see markings on each military contract tool that indicates it was built for Gov use....I've had mechanics that had "borrowed" these for their own personal collections while in the service and tried to turn them in on warranty to local dealers....since they are clearly marked as being Gov Property, if the dealer did warranty the tool, he wouldn't get reimbursed by Snap-On for it...in essence he ate it. The majority of Dealers are not employees of Snap-On but independent businssmen that own their own truck and inventory. I know a number of Dealers that stop by National Guard facilities and sell items off their trucks, in these cases the Guard facility has the ability to buy from local dealers and may get the first line items that will have a warranty.
Snap-On also has Industrial Sales personel...these folks deal strickly with major manufacturers, trade schools, etc. They have the ability to discount far below what the Local Dealer can even buy his tools for.
Concerning tool boxes, the biggest difference is how heavy these are made. Economy boxes use lighter gauge sheet metal and lack reinforcing in critical areas. A poorly built box will begin to show failures in drawer slides and casters fold up underneath when under heavy loads. Key to finding a good well built box is compare square inches-cubic inches and total weight...as a general rule, the heavier the box is when empty, the better the tool box.
I could probably fill pages of information like this, but my typing fingers are getting tired.....hope this helps.
Edited by - Rembrandt on 05/18/2002 06:43:35
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
It's been a while since I've seen one, I seem to remember the marking on gov. built tools is a "G". Each tool has a numeric marking that indicates year of manufacture.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Merc -I can certainly understand your frustration with many of your customers. Just try to understand that some of us genuinely have to settle for less expensive lines(not Chinese), since, as someone has suggested, we're not using tools every day and therefore can't justify
the expense of the Cadillac brands.
I understand also that professionals need higher quality stuff.
Interesting thread -will check it out later for more views.
Only the strong survive...well maybe also some weak ones with lots of ammo!
....................
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
To the stars through difficulties
Nobody has yet mentioned Williams tools. Anyone familiar with them? Williams Superwrench? The refineries I used to work in used a lot of them. Somehow a bunch of them ended-up in my tool box. They're good quality American-made hand tools.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Only the strong survive...well maybe also some weak ones with lots of ammo!
I just walked out to the garage and checked again. Craftsman-Taiwan.
Originally I had a set of Japanese $9.00 impacts and had split a couple of them. My wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I told her 1/2" Craftsman impact sockets. I was a little disapointed when I saw Taiwan on them but they have served well. I think Sears saw the error of their ways and went back to "Made in USA".
And yes I have used many Williams wrenches over the years in power and boiler plants. Good stuff. Thin, strong and fit well.
....................
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
To the stars through difficulties
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
Snap-On did have tool boxes made by Waterloo Industries up to about the early 1960's. All Snap-On boxes are now made in their tool box plant in Algona, Iowa. The exception may be a few smaller plastic tote boxes. Snap-On does own subsidiary companys, for example they build the Cobalt tool boxes for Lowes. Doesn't mean they are the same quality as a Snap-On, obviously they are cheaper for a reason...not as heavy duty.
If you see a tool that has the name "Blue Point" marked on it....that simply means it is marketed by Snap-On and built to their specs by another company. An example of this would be the line of Blue Point air tools....they are an economy line air tool to compete with the Craftsman's etc. If the air tool is marked "Snap-On", those are made exclusively by Snap-On and are premium quality.
Snap-On has plants all over the United States, Mexico, and Canada. If you are making comparisons of quality based on the fact that "brand X didn't break and was cheaper...therefore it must be the same quality as a more expensive Snap-On"....your analysis is flawed. The difference comes in the metalurgy, heat treating, design, and manufacturing techniques to make a particular tool. Gets back to the old saying...."compare apples with apples....not oranges"...
Edited by - Rembrandt on 05/19/2002 10:37:26
1st off,TOOLS1 quote: Just buy tools. The one with the most in the end wins.
TOOLS
Hey man, what you do with your tools is your business.I just WON'T be asking to borrow any from you in the near future.
(Now don't you go getting your shorts in a bunch Tools,just havin a little fun)
I have almost all Snap-on.Are they over priced?Yes.
Are they of higher quality than other brands mentioned?Yes
If I were to retire today and placed an add for said snap-on tools,and I placed another add for for craftsman tools,which add would get the most hits?And which would sell for closer to retail?
Now I do have craftsman tools here at the house and a few a work,but Rembrandt is right-you should not compare a Jennings to a Kimber.
I also have some mac,matco,otc and others.
To me it's like comparing a $25 harbor freight paint sprayer to a $300 sharpes.
Snappy does make some fractional wrenches for aircraft mechanics,try buying those at sears.
Thanks to all for pointing out how I've been waisting my hard earned money,soon I'll be able to afford that elusive Jennings to my collection,although the optional bayonet may take a little longer.....
Have guns,will travel
Woods
How big a boy are ya?