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RACIAL PROFILING
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
Department of Homeland Security is dropping the requirement that residents of selected countries (mostly Arab) must register when arriving in the United States. Many Arab and Islamic groups complained that it was "profiling". About 74,000 visitors registered since the program was put into place after 911, and several were deported when it was discovered that they had overstayed thier visas.
Question - September 11, 2001. 19 hijackers. All Arab males, 16 were Saudis. Over half were illegals or had overstayed thier visas. None were American Citizens. Do you guys and gals think it is wrong to keep tabs on visitors from these countries? Is this common sense, or "racial profiling"??
Or is a better answer to increase surveillance on American Citizens in the name of "fairness"?
~ If your not an American Citizen, you are not protected by the blanket of the United States Constitution.
Question - September 11, 2001. 19 hijackers. All Arab males, 16 were Saudis. Over half were illegals or had overstayed thier visas. None were American Citizens. Do you guys and gals think it is wrong to keep tabs on visitors from these countries? Is this common sense, or "racial profiling"??
Or is a better answer to increase surveillance on American Citizens in the name of "fairness"?
~ If your not an American Citizen, you are not protected by the blanket of the United States Constitution.
Comments
World War II. Americans of Japanese decent were stripped of all their possesions, and intered in camps for the duration of the war. the mind set in those days. "ALL JAPS ARE BAD" and a threat to our country.
There were many Japanese here sympathic to the Japanese cause. Many Japanese Officers were schooled in this country.
So why the big stink, When Arab,s and other middle eastern people strike out at the U.S. then every one is suspect. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, as we can see in the cost of that "CURE" with the Billions of Dollars spent to go after the perp,s that caused 9-11
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/24/saudi-student-in-texas-charged-with-plotting-terrorist-attack/?icid=maing|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2|46359
LUBBOCK, Texas - A young college student from Saudi Arabia who studied chemical engineering in Texas purchased explosive chemicals over the Internet as part of a plan to hide bomb materials inside dolls and baby carriages to blow up dams, nuclear plants or the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush, the Justice Department said Thursday.
He says "No, I don't. And furthermore, why the hell would you ask me that? Is it because I'm Chinese?
"No", I said, "It's because you're drinking my beer, you little jerk
Around the turn of the century(1900),a nationalist movement organization was coming to prominence in Imperial Japan.They were
called "the Black Dragons"(I think thats what they called themselves.)
This organization was made up of a number of government officials,
military,business leaders,educators,with very radical nationalistic views.(they even influenced the Nazis).During this same period,
immigration of japanese to the U.S. was hitting an all-time high.
In order to keep future generations of Japanese-Americans from losing
touch with their culture,their immigrant parents would send them to
school in Japan.Nationalism was taught in these schools,according to the staunch view held by the Black Dragons,as in the years leading up to the war,the Dragons influence was felt in every aspect on Japanese life.
American military intellegence was aware of the Black Dragons involement in sabatoge of shipment of raw materials fom South America.
Immagrant Japanese fishermen working near the S.A. coast,would
radio information about ships leaving those ports,bound for the U.S.,
to Japanese submarines lurking nearby,that would promptly sink them.
And,this was BEFORE the attack on Pearl Harbour.
Military intellegence also knew that the Black Dragons were active
in the U.S.,but not sure who was an active member,or who was a sympathizer.Because military intel.depts. were made-up almost exclusively of whites,infiltration was impossible.
German nationalism in the U.S. at the same time was easier to
keep track of.The people involved in those movements were "loud
and proud" of their Nazi support,so they were easy to follow,
and being these were white folk,easier to infiltrate.Consquently
several German-Americans were arrested for espionage attempted
sabatoge etc.To the best of my knowledge no Japanese-Americans
were busted for such.(I could be wrong.)
What to do about Arab-Americans, I don't know.That's a question
best left answered by more intellegent men than myself.I do have
some Arab-American friends,and would vouch for them in a heart
beat.They are feeling the heat,though,even from other immagrant
americans.
About the Black Dragons,History Channel had a fascinating episode
on one of their regular programs about them just recently.
Edited by - thesoundguy1 on 05/24/2002 04:05:31
Edited by - thesoundguy1 on 05/24/2002 04:08:06
Shoot straight!
Shoot straight!
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
Helping keep America free: One gun at a time.
Being a long time Harley Davidson Rider, over 50 years, It would seem that every where I went, I hear "We dont want your kind here" Police Harrasment, and stared at every where I went.
This was not only in the past, but continues to today. Yes I wear the leather, the wallet chains, occasionaly a beard, Have actually been ask to leave a McDonalds, just because of my appearance.
But to this I say, I have never committed a crime, have only one Traffic ticket to my credit in my life, Raised Three Kids of which all are doing quite well in life.
So I say if you dont have something to hide, why be upset when you are checked out, These are troubling times, and caution should be uppermost in the minds of people. If this caution means a little inconvenience for you, think of other people, not just "YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME"
LR
Racial profiling is unconstitutional. That doesn't bother some people, of course it's usually the same people who want your guns.
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
IF you rob a bank and they get a discription, would it not be the thing to do to stop anyone fitting that discription, Again if you aint got nothing to Hide, why fear it.
LR
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
'If you aint got nothing to Hide,' then why won't you fill out our friendly gun registration form? 'If you aint got nothing to Hide,' why can't you wear our new citizen tracking device? 'If you aint got nothing to Hide,' why can't we search your car and home on a regular basis? 'If you aint got nothing to Hide,' implies that refusing a search means your guilty. In America our courts are 'SUPPOSED' to operate under the assumption of innocent until proven guilty. The fact that you don't have anything to hide doesn't mean you have to prove it, otherwise aren't you guilty until proving yourself innocent?
Monkey
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
LR
LR
I think that the police should not be allowed to get descriptions of people either. That is profiling too. They don't know who it was they just have an idea as to what they look like. I suppose that is ok in your book though, somehow I'm sure it must be different.
Where are people asking to have anyone registered, wear tracking devices, etc...? Clouding the issue is good. Pure BS. If they ain't got nothing to hide, what's the problem of questioning them, how is that. Questioning does not imply guilt, it is making sure there is no evil intent. Do you go through a detector at an airport and * about that too. Oh wait, I'm sure that is different. I am sure glad you are more than willing to risk the safety of your family and everyone elses, by making sure the people who match the general description of the ones who destroyed the towers and killed so many, are not asked questions.
Screw em, if they don't like it, leave the country or become a citizen.....oh wait they have to prvide documentation to do that. Just give it to any who ask, right.
Edited by - twins on 05/24/2002 14:14:44
In my state they have recently passed legislation allowing police to pull over any vehicle without cause. They call it a seatbelt law. If they pull you over and your wearing your seatbelt they can still run your plates and check your insurance and registration. So much for innocent until proven guilty. Im sure it will do wanders for the collections dept. sence they no longer need just cause. Now they can pull you over and herass you"just cause" they want too.
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
Like I said earlier, Lets all set back, scrutinize no one, and wait for the next disaster before we take action.
LR
There are criminals of all colors, but when you know a certain group of people want you and all like you dead, you would be a fool to not watch them and question their intent. It's called common sense. Be aware of those around you and know your situation and it's dangers.
Those of you who don't believe this, why would you avoid places you know might get you in trouble. "Biker bars", gang areas, etc... How do you know to avoid these areas' profiling I bet.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
"Golly! I guess I will have to go into a herd of sheep to find that Elephant."
You're absolutely right! The only people in that herd are the ones who gave up their rights for empty promises of security.
Sheep, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I wonder if you'll stay in the herd after guns are outlawed and gun owners are declared domestic terrorists? What am I saying, of course you will!
For people who are so quick to exchange freedoms for protection I find it ironic that you feel you even need a weapon! "Don't worry they're from the government and they're here to protect you", right?
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
Edited by - thesupermonkey on 05/24/2002 16:35:12
But common sence would tell me that if a group of people, intent on doing me harm , should be watched, any idiot that wouldnt keep an eye on someone threatening harm, is just that an IDIOT.
I think I smell a bit of Hypocrocy in this forum.
Every one yelling dont infringe on my 1st ammendment rights, but when several comments on the YOUTH OF ISLAM web site, "NUKE EM" HACK EM"
Destroy their web site, isnt that a form of censurship, wanting to take away their right to express themselves.
However I do not agree with the ISLAMIC point of view, I do respect their right to express that view, as Long as it is not done with violence.
Again its "AS LONG AS It AINT ME, ITS OK"
LR
Japan does this. Russia does that. Germany does so so.
Sometimes it the country/government , not the race of people.
Don't confuse race for the government that controls its people!
I remember when the Germans wanted to take over the world. I remember when the japanese wanted all Americans dead. It goes on and on. The people of these governments/countries did what they were told and were brainwashed as the people had their government controling all comunications and weren't connected to the outside world. You must understand that people in some countries are cut off from the facts and are raised by the likes of Osama, and what else do they have?
They don't question or they are killed! It isn't a race of people- it's the governing body that puts these things in their meager minds.
You cannot tell me that people want death and destruction instead of life and freedom by design. To see a loved one killed, is devistating to all races,- this is testimony that humans are in fact human.
People need to think for themselves, instead of letting governments telling them what they think! This is happening in America, right now as we speak. Germans, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Mexicans, Asians, Scotish, English, Spanish, and more,live in America in peace and these Americans all mourn for the deaths of their American brothers of 9-11. We are united as Americans of all races and shouldn't let one country devide us because of their insane religion.
Get rid of the hate- let it go- then stop the government that is a threat to life, liberty, and happiness and peace.
Try going to another country and demanding your rights. They'd laugh you all the way to the lock-up.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Inlighten me.
Sorry for the confusion.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
9-11 hijackers said something to the bartender at the strip club the night before the hijackings.
I'm just sure there is more we as a nation can do before we get compleatly mid-evil on there arses.
"Respect my authority"
I knew that profiling would come with the territory.I've since changed
professions,cut my hair,and still drive a van.I'm still profiled.
A proud gun owner,with a german sirname.I'm just not profiled by the police anymore.I'm profiled by average people on the street.I have
even had people ask me if my grandfather was a Nazi!!!No,I'm not hasseled by the police as much,I'm profiled by everyone else!
I'm proud of who I am,I'm proud of my heritage.So the sins of other
germans will be my cross to bear,everytime someone gives me a peculiar look when they hear my name,and everytime some idiot asks
me if my forefathers were war criminals.Just as the sins of the
Muslim-Arabs of the 9/11 attack will visit themselves upon the
good,peace loving Muslims that I know that are out there.
Profiling,in this time of uncertainty,may just be a nessessary evil.
How many times have we heard or voiced the phrase "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance?" seductiveone has made a very key observation - it is incumbent on us all to pay attention to what is happening around us. Not just in the sound bites / photo ops rationed to us by the media, but in our mundane daily lives. If we are a bit more sensitive to the words and actions of Ali, Osama, and Muhamed than those of John, Hiroshi and Pedro, I think that is reasonable. In World War II, it was Rolf, Hiroshi & Carlo. For the next 55, Ivan - still do have some concerns about that boy. Hey, it isn't "fair;" it isn't 100% accurate (Johnny Walker, for example) - but it is only natural. But we cannot institutionalize it nor condone it being institutionalized, without abandoning our principles. Those principles are what set us apart from (and I would submit, above ) the rest. Abandon them and we become no better than our enemies, howling like animals, "Death to the infidels!"
We need to pull together as a people and a nation, with the same unity of purpose that characterized our efforts 1941-1945. Eradicate these terrorist vermin w/o mercy, but not lose sight of the fact that many patriotic American citizens are of Arabic descent and / or follow Islam as a religious practice. The internment camps of WW2 were one of the most shameful acts in our history, we should learn from our mistakes.
unfortunately just as suseptable to a bombing as the rest of us. The only difference is that just before they changed worlds they would say , oh it's nothing,he probably had beans for lunch.
Proper profiling, excuted correctly, is an awsome weapon, and tool to find the person(s) connected to a crime. Ignore history, and facts and and history will repeat itself.
As to using descriptions to identify suspects, as someone was previously was objecting to, is also a valueable tool. The description of a white male automatically excludes from interest all females, blacks, mexicans and shifts focus to a smaller group of the population.
This is not an emotional issue. It is a basic, scientific, statistical tool, used with great success, and used with proper police procedures.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain