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Question for you plumbers

utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
Recently finished off a bathroom in my house. Now whenever the toilet is flushed, gurgling or burping sounds come from the sink. My only thought is the P-trap is not at the right height in relation to the outfall pipe just past the P-trap.
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Comments

  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's your vent.
    Either is not close enough to the water closet. Or to small.

    It's sucking the air through the P-trap.

    And I'm not a plumber. They wouldn't let me join when the found out my mother and father were married.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Alpine
    It's your vent.
    Either is not close enough to the water closet. Or to small.

    It's sucking the air through the P-trap.


    Need to explain what and where the vent is located. As in the vent above the roof?
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The vent is the vertical pipe that runs up through the roof (for a toilet I believe it's 1 1/2" size) that keeps the water rushing through the 3" drain from sucking the water out of P-trap. If it does, then you get sewer smell coming out of the sink until that water is replaced.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • savage170savage170 Member Posts: 37,569 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by utbrowningman
    quote:Originally posted by Alpine
    It's your vent.
    Either is not close enough to the water closet. Or to small.

    It's sucking the air through the P-trap.


    Need to explain what and where the vent is located. As in the vent above the roof?
    That is the vent he's talking about sometime they do get clogged by things like birds building a nest on top of them etc...
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    Alpine is correct about the lack of venting causing the sounds you are hearing.
    1620s.jpg

    Did you change the plumbing yourself or did a contractor do it for you?
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  • countryfarmercountryfarmer Member Posts: 4,552
    edited November -1
    Around here if your toilet pipe is 3", the vent has to be 3" also.

    AS the other have stated. you have a venting problem going on
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  • timinpatiminpa Member Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not a plumber, but my * crack shows often.

    It is definetly a vent problem.

    Here is my question tho, did you change the size of your drains or the number of drains that needed venting? (i.e. add another sink)

    Because it would seem unlikely that just swapping out a toilet, or putting a new sink would cause this issue, since your not making any major change to the overall set up.

    In that case it could be that the stack is clogged or restricted. this can sometimes occur when people get careless with what falls into the open pipes and drains when remodeling.
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  • KnifecollectorKnifecollector Member Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Was a Studor vent or air admittance valve used in place of an atmospheric vent? Usually the sound you are hearing is caused by a positive pressure in the drain pipe.
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  • utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The bathroom was roughed in when we built the house. The vent (assume was installed) and pipes were already in place. The only change to the piping was to install an elbow under the toilet drain in the concrete to move it farther away from where the shower was located.
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    Perhaps it wasn't a complete rough in. Sometimes the vent for a bathroom group is just stubbed down into the ceiling awaiting a full connection at a later date when arrangement of bathroom fixtures are determined. Was the work done by a contractor?

    I have seen vents get plugged on purpose, with scraps of insulation or rags, while the work is ongoing to guard against sewer smell/gas and then the pipes get reconnected while forgetting to remove the plug.

    I don't suppose you took pictures while the work was going on?
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  • NOAHNOAH Member Posts: 9,690
    edited November -1
    the sewer pipe that your toilet sits on has to have a vent connected to it,in most homes it is right behind the toilet in the wall.
    code here in Dallas is 2" vent on a 3-4"sewer pipe.
    that picture that skicat is showing, the vent is to far away from the toilet. sorry skicat , the slope is 1/4 inch per 10 ft. not per ft.
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  • KnifecollectorKnifecollector Member Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here in NC the minimum slope on 3" pipe or less is 1/4" per foot.
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  • utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So assuming there is a vent (which appears to be plugged) when the toilet flushes, it causes suction in the sink P-trap which would normally be drafted from the vent. Now that it is all drywalled and finished, I have no access to the piping unless I want to rip out the entire bathroom.
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    That is not my drawing Noah. It is just one I found after a quick google search to illustrate where the vent pipes are to a non-plumber.[:)]

    Codes vary from state to state. In MN minimum vent for a stool is 2" with the most distant stool vent being run full size, min 3", out the roof. Minimum slope in MN as follows..



    4715.2400 PITCH ON HORIZONTAL DRAINAGE PIPING.

    Horizontal drainage piping shall be installed in uniform alignment at uniform slopes in accordance
    with the following requirements and in no case at a slope which will produce a computed velocity of less
    than two feet per second, unless otherwise permitted by the administrative authority, based on hydraulic
    analysis of the piping system.



    Size of Piping Minimum Slope

    Less than 3 inches 1/4 inch per foot

    3 inches to 6 inches 1/8 inch per foot

    8 inches and over 1/16 inch per foot

    Statutory Authority: MS s 168.59; 16B.61; 16B.64; 326.37; 326.40
    History: 28 SR 146
    Posted: July 31, 2007
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by utbrowningman
    So assuming there is a vent (which appears to be plugged) when the toilet flushes, it causes suction in the sink P-trap which would normally be drafted from the vent. Now that it is all drywalled and finished, I have no access to the piping unless I want to rip out the entire bathroom.


    No you don't necessarily have to rip out the entire bathroom. Studer valves are not legal in MN but maybe they are OK in your state. Did you take pictures?
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  • timinpatiminpa Member Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The vent will run up to/ through the attic, you should check in the attic to see if the vent pipe comes through(assuming its not a finished attic space.)

    this visual shouls also tell you the diameter of the pipe used to vent.

    If you don't have a pipe, then you will have to mess up a wall, but not "tear out the whole bathroom"
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  • savage170savage170 Member Posts: 37,569 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by utbrowningman
    So assuming there is a vent (which appears to be plugged) when the toilet flushes, it causes suction in the sink P-trap which would normally be drafted from the vent. Now that it is all drywalled and finished, I have no access to the piping unless I want to rip out the entire bathroom.


    If it is cloggeg take a small cable machine up to the roof and snake it out from there
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  • utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I took pictures, finding them is the trick. I'll have to check the attic and roof to see what I have.
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    If it is a missing or plugged branch vent , climbing on the roof will not help as the snake will not know when to take a turn out of the stack and into the branch.
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  • savage170savage170 Member Posts: 37,569 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    90% of all clogs I have seen was in the main stack trying the cable first is better then to start ripping out walls
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  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by savage170
    90% of all clogs I have seen was in the main stack trying the cable first is better then to start ripping out walls


    Not trying to be difficult but I am trying to keep the man off his roof. With the info he has provided, or more importantly the info he has not provided, My money says it is most likely he has an unvented bathroom group.

    Typically, around here, there are usually 2 vent penetrations through the roof. This is for mainly 2 reasons. It is less pipe/fittings/labor to combine the vents and roofers hate it when you put lots of penetrations in their roof.

    The 2 penetrations are for the main vent( 3" or 4") and a 2" vent above the kitchen sink. Neither of these being plugged will give you symptoms only in the newly installed sink. Since the air is being drawn through the trap of the bathroom lav then that vent is the one which is plugged or missing. If it is plugged it is usually easier to access the vent from under the sink than from the roof. If the vent is missing a snake will not help no matter where you enter the system.

    At this point I am only advising that he find the pictures.
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  • bigoutsidebigoutside Member Posts: 19,443 ✭
    edited November -1
    Is your attic accessable?
    Check and see if you even have a vent stack over the new bath.

    It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't.
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  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,045 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "They wouldn't let me join when the found out my mother and father were married."............to each other??
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
    "They wouldn't let me join when the found out my mother and father were married."............to each other??


    It's an old joke. you have to be over 60 to remember it.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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