firearms in federal facilities.........

vikingsfaninmi

How do you interpret (d)(3)?
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http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html
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? 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious * injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

vikingsfaninmi

The statute cited is the actual statute referred to in the "It is unlawful to possess a firearm in a federal building" signs posted at the USPS and elsewhere.

It appears to me that (d) (3) allows me, as a CPL holder, to carry at the USPS and certainly would not prohibit me from having a firearm in my car in the parking lot of a federal facility.

tr fox

Every work day I sit in front of a federal sign that is meant for the public to see. The sign has a has a picture of a gun with the infamous red circle with a line through it along with wording "no guns or other weapons allowed in federal facilities". At the bottome of the sign are the words something to the effect that "A state issued carry license is not valid for carrying a weapon in a federal facility".

If you forget and bring in your gun and have a state CCW license, you will be asked politely to take it out to your vehicle and secure it and then return to complete your business. If you don't have a CCW license then it is on; Meaning you can get a lecture, a ticket or arrested.

I do not agree with this rule. I am merely telling you what I observe every day. Also, at the end of the USC Sec. 18 (the d3 that the poster is asking about) is verbage which states that if you are in the federal facility with a gun and you are there for a lawful purpose, then the rule prohibiting your gun does not apply. I would think that if you had a CCW and were wanting to protect the large sum of money you always carried, or to protect yourself or daughter with you because of recent threats received, then that should be a legal reason for carrying and you should not receive any heat from the federal law enforcement. Sadly, I believe you WILL receive heat regardless of the way or the reason for you carrying in the federal facililty.

BTW, this same question has been discussed extensively especially here on GB.com. There is even a lawyer that has a website deadicated to this very question. I believe his professional opinion was that the feds are violating the very rules made by congress in regards to section d3 allowance for carrying in the course hunting (traveling to or from hunting grounds and having to stop by post office, etc) or if you have a CCW.

Until and if someone challenges this rule, and wins, the rule will remain in force.

drsck

Several years ago I was working with a fellow who had the unpleasant experience of forgetting that he had his Smith 39 in his briefcase when he walked into a federal court house. He simply put his briefcase up on the conveyor which carried it through the xray machine and was promptly arrested when it came out the other side. He pleaded no contest and was convicted. He received no jail time, but was on probabation for 3 years (I think) but once that was completed his record was to be cleared. The only point he had in his favor and which ultimately proved crucial, was that one of our other coworkers was a retired federal judge whose son was a sitting judge. Our coworker, the judge, went to bat for him and that's what mattered more than any thing else. The moral of the story is that it's not what you know about the law or even what your lawyer knows about the law; it's who you know that knows something about the law.

pickenup

My purposes for carrying are lawful, therefore I will.

victorlvlb

I saw a brinks truck pull into a government site.I guess he was loading money into an atm machine on the base.He sure didn't seem to feel very safe the way he was running.He even had a side arm.Its kind of funny when the laws are bent.

Red223

Diane Feinstein travels into and from Federal Facilities with her hand gun.

How did she get her California San Francisco CCW to become a Federal License anyways??

wundudnee

I read the word facility as not necessarily a building, but the property. Like a large military base or federal lands that are sometimes opened for limited hunting. I know some bases have trap and skeet ranges that you can bring personal firearms to. In other words, "In federal facilities", could mean a fenced base. But I'm probably wrong again.[:)]

HAIRY

quote:Originally posted by drsck
The moral of the story is that it's not what you know about the law or even what your lawyer knows about the law; it's who you know that knows something about the law.
It is actually: A good lawyer knows the law; a better lawyer knows the judge.[:D][:D][;)]

tr fox

quote:Originally posted by wundudnee
I read the word facility as not necessarily a building, but the property. Like a large military base or federal lands that are sometimes opened for limited hunting. I know some bases have trap and skeet ranges that you can bring personal firearms to. In other words, "In federal facilities", could mean a fenced base. But I'm probably wrong again.[:)]


Good and reasonable thinking on your part. However, in countless memos, instructions, and other notices, "federal facility" always definately means the building and may mean the surrounding property (parking lot, etc). In other words if you are handed a memo and the memo refers to "federal facility" you know it means the building. If the writer of the memo wants to refer only to the parking lot, other property, etc., the writer will always mention that specifcally.

JMHO

Alpine

I think this is an "it depends" law. I regularly attend trap shoots in Mountain Home, that happen to be on an air force base. The base commander has decided that it is all right for 60 to 100 people to bring firearms onto his base.

No problem. Just show your drivers license and proof of insurance and you are waved through.