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If you were the judge, what would be your decision

beneteaubeneteau Member Posts: 8,552 ✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
Ark. judge hearing lawsuit over $1M lotto ticket


SEARCY, Ark. (AP) - An Arkansas judge will hear arguments over who is the rightful owner of the $1 million jackpot from a lottery ticket that a woman grabbed from a pile of discarded tickets at a gas station.

A White County Circuit judge on Wednesday planned to hold a hearing over whether to lift his restraining order freezing the money that Sharon Jones says she won from the ticket she picked up from the Super 1 Stop. Lisa Petriches, the gas station's manager, sued Jones and said that Jones took the discarded ticket from a receptacle without her permission.

The ticket hadn't been completely scratched off and turned out to be a $1 million winner.

Jones has argued that she has removed discarded tickets from the station's stack before without drawing an objection.
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Comments

  • jev1969jev1969 Member Posts: 2,691
    edited November -1
    It was in the trash. It belongs to the woman who lifted it out.
  • TANK78ZTANK78Z Member Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMO
    If the "trash" is in the store or on store property it is the property of the store/owner
    once the "trash" hits public property [ the curb ] it is fair game.
    Even if in a dumpster, as long as it remains on store property it only changes hands when an authorized person or company [ waste hauler ] takes possession .
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    Trash is not trash until it makes it to curbside for pickup, at least that's what the supreme court has ruled in reference to police trash searchs.

    Seems to me the same would apply in this case, therefore I'd say the gas station is the rightful owner.
  • tacking1tacking1 Member Posts: 3,844
    edited November -1
    Y'all are WAY off on this one....money should go to start a fund to compensate the trash collectors. Obviously, they are the ones entitled to that money.
  • Old-ColtsOld-Colts Member Posts: 22,697 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with those that said if the receptacle was on the station's property, the ticket is the property of the station owner; probably not even the station manager. However, if it is reasonable to believe that the ticket would not have been retrieved from the receptacle by station manager or owner and would have gone undiscovered as a winning ticket without Jones' intervention, then as the judge I'd probably award a 50-50 split between the owner and the discoverer or 33% between the owner, manager, and Jones.

    If you can't feel the music; it's only pink noise!

  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,271 ******
    edited November -1
  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,271 ******
    edited November -1
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,518 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jones gets her million she took out of the trash. Store manager can eat sand because she did not purchase ticket and it wasn't hers to start with. Store will get the original fee from the state for selling the ticket.
  • rob223rob223 Member Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    True story. A friend of mine told me that he had won fifty dollars off of a scratch ticket that someone had thrown away. He looked down at it as he was standing near a trash can and thought it looked like more of the same numbers on it than being a losing ticket. Picked it up and realized it was a fity dollar winner. The very same day, after he had told me that, I found one on the ground and picked it up for the heck of it and it was a five dollar winner. Never done it again. But luck was with us that day.
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 17,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I knew I should have scratched that ticket completely off![B)],, it was a part of 5 I bought and it was last one,,I was pizzed and put them in garbage,,,,now can I have my million.


    Could you imagine the dude that tossed it.[|)][:X]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Even if trash makes it to the curbside,, Those that are paid to pick it up own it.. Here in Florida you can be arrested for dumpster diving if the stores chose to prosecute you...
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Precedent was set when management allowed worker to retrieve other tickets from the trash. Little bit more of an explanation here for those who don't know:

    The Arkansas Scholarship Lottery has a couple of reward systems set up for non-winning tickets. You can post them online and earn points. These points can be redeemed for anything from a ball cap to a flat screen tv. All kinds of goodies out there that are redeemable. There is also a "second" chance drawing for prizes that go unclaimed.

    A lot of convience stores allow clerks to "dumpster dive" for losing tickets and let them accumulate the points.

    The manager never stopped the clerk before and wouldn't have this time except for the fact that it was a $1mil winner. The manager is trying to get the ticket NOT the owner. Manager is just another employee of the owner and no more or less entitled to the ticket than the clerk.

    Sour milk here, nothing more. Clerk gets the ticket not the manager is my vote.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The real question is.......

    How did the gas station find out??? Seriously?? you would TELL them you found it in the garbage can????
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just another case of two fools who will have end up collecting about $250.00 out of $1,000,000.00 after all of the legal fees and lawyers are paid.
  • tjh1948tjh1948 Member Posts: 434
    edited November -1
    This sounds like abandoned property that neither the clerk, manager, nor store ever had an ownership interest in. If Arkansas law says finders - keepers it is the clerks. I suppose it would need to be turned in & held by the local authorities in case an ownership claim is made. The fight should be interesting, particularly if Arkansas law says that abandoned property becomes the State's if ownership cannot be proven.
  • gesshotsgesshots Member Posts: 15,678 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
    King Solomon

    Yep! Split down the middle. [^]
    It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't. ~ J.B. Books
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I say it belongs to the person who pulled it out of the trash.

    Interesting analogy to the search and seizure, but that has to do with state action and an expectation of privacy, not ownership.

    If you establish that the store wasn't the original owner (and even then only if there is a good reason why it was in the trash, i.e., "I dropped it & couldn't find it, the video security tapes show me looking for it, someone must have found it and tossed it"), once it is in the trash, that means that the original owner decided to abandon it.
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
    I say it belongs to the person who pulled it out of the trash.

    Interesting analogy to the search and seizure, but that has to do with state action and an expectation of privacy, not ownership.
    If you establish that the store wasn't the original owner (and even then only if there is a good reason why it was in the trash, i.e., "I dropped it & couldn't find it, the video security tapes show me looking for it, someone must have found it and tossed it"), once it is in the trash, that means that the original owner decided to abandon it.

    Can you have an expectation of privacy over something you do not own, rent, or otherwise possess or control? I would think the answer there is no, which is why I drew the analogy.

    I would agree that the original owner decided to abandon the property, and having abandoned that property on the property of another it seems to me the property that was abandoned becomes the property of the person who controls the property it was abandoned upon.....Theres a mouthful.
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:bhale187 Posted - 01/25/2012 : 4:03:39 PM

    quote:
    Originally posted by Jgreen

    I say it belongs to the person who pulled it out of the trash.

    Interesting analogy to the search and seizure, but that has to do with state action and an expectation of privacy, not ownership.
    If you establish that the store wasn't the original owner (and even then only if there is a good reason why it was in the trash, i.e., "I dropped it & couldn't find it, the video security tapes show me looking for it, someone must have found it and tossed it"), once it is in the trash, that means that the original owner decided to abandon it.



    Can you have an expectation of privacy over something you do not own, rent, or otherwise possess or control? I would think the answer there is no, which is why I drew the analogy.
    I would agree that the original owner decided to abandon the property, and having abandoned that property on the property of another it seems to me the property that was abandoned becomes the property of the person who controls the property it was abandoned upon.....Theres a mouthful.

    I think you have to separate expectation of privacy with ownership rights. Remember, the key is "state action". If you have an expectation of privacy, the state can't act. Whether or not you own the trash is irrelevant. The expectation is not "privacy in trash", but "privacy in the house". So for example, that trash bag, while it is in your house or on your property not waiting for the garbage man (and that is a big deal here), you would have an expectation of privacy. It doesn't mean that you own it. It means that the government can't go through it without a warrant.

    Once it is on the curb, you have no expectation of privacy, and no warrant is necessary.
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, curiosity got the better of me. Here's the law in Arkansas:

    The rights of a finder of property depend on how the found property is classified, and the character of the property should be determined by evaluating all the facts and circumstances present in the particular case. Id. The Arkansas Supreme Court uses the classifications of found property that were used at common law: abandoned, lost, mislaid, and treasure trove.

    Property is abandoned when it is thrown away or when its possession is voluntarily forsaken by the owner, in which case it will become the property of the finder. Property is also abandoned when it is involuntarily lost or left without the hope and expectation of again acquiring it. Abandoned property becomes the property of the finder, subject to the superior claim of the owner.

    Lost property is property that the owner has involuntarily parted with through neglect, carelessness, or inadvertence and of whose whereabouts the owner has no knowledge. Only if the owner parted with the possession of the property involuntarily and does not know thereafter where to find it, may the property be deemed to be lost property. Property will not be considered to have been lost unless the circumstances are such that, considering the place where, and the conditions under which, it is found, there is an inference that it was left there unintentionally. The finder of lost property does not acquire absolute ownership, but acquires only such property interest or right as will enable him to keep it against all the world but the rightful owner.

    Mislaid property is property that is intentionally put into a certain place and later forgotten. Mislaid property is presumed to have been left in the custody of the owner or occupier of the premises upon which it is found. A finder of mislaid property acquires no ownership rights in it, and, where such property is found upon another's premises, the finder is required to turn it over to the owner of the premises. The owner of such premises becomes a gratuitous bailee by operation of law, with a duty to use ordinary care to return it to the owner and is absolutely liable for a misdelivery. The place where money or property is found is an important factor in the determination of the question of whether it was lost or mislaid.

    A treasure trove is money, whose owner is unknown, found concealed in the earth or in a house or other private place, but not lying on the ground. To be classified as treasure trove, the money must have been hidden or concealed so long as to indicate that the owner is probably dead or unknown. Title to treasure trove belongs to the finder, against all the world except the true owner.

    So, based on all this, the finder wins.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,518 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And as I said the store will get a payment for selling it.
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Was the finder on company time when they plucked the ticket & scratched it?
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is the finder an illegal alien? [;)]
  • bigoutsidebigoutside Member Posts: 19,443
    edited November -1
    Its Searcy for god's sake.

    They clerk and manager HAVE to be related.
  • calrugerfancalrugerfan Member Posts: 18,209
    edited November -1
    I would ask if they've ever enforced their "no picking stuff out of the garbage" policy before. If they have never raised a stink about somebody taking WORTHLESS trash out, then they don't get to raise a stink about somebody getting lucky and finding something that turns out to be valuable.
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,178 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What are the rules regarding the lottery? No one has clean hands, I'd say the money stays with the state.
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lotto ticket is a bearers instrument.

    one man's trash is another man's...

    The owner of the ticket is the one who found it and turned it in. Nuff said. And if I were the judge, I would make the clerk/manager pay for the others legal fees and court cost.

    This is yet another case of loose lips. If'n you win the lotto guys, S T F U and cash the ticket and pretend it didn't happen.
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 22,051 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    Trash is not trash until it makes it to curbside for pickup, at least that's what the supreme court has ruled in reference to police trash searchs.

    Seems to me the same would apply in this case, therefore I'd say the gas station is the rightful owner.


    Yup, yup. Now if she was smart she wouldn't have tried to claim it at the store [:D].
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Latest twist to the story, it may be that the clerk lied to the original owner and told her it wasn't a winner! If so the judge should put the clerk in jail for stupidity. If you're going to lie to a customer and then remove the ticket from the trash later, you better be prepared to keep your mouth shut.

    **********************************************************

    By ANDREW DeMILLO
    Associated Press

    SEARCY, Ark. (AP) - A hearing over who the rightful owner is of a $1 million lottery ticket jackpot was postponed after an Arkansas judge raised the possibility that neither the woman who claimed the ticket nor the store manager suing her would prevail in the case.

    White County Circuit Court Judge Thomas Hughes didn't say Wednesday when the proceeding would resume after store manager Lisa Petriches' attorneys asked for time to assess their case.

    Petriches is suing Sharon Jones over the jackpot she claimed. Jones took the ticket from a discarded bin at the store.

    Hughes was concerned that another customer identified as the original buyer of the ticket wasn't a party in the lawsuit.

    The customer, Sharon Duncan, discarded the ticket after an electronic scanner indicated it wasn't a winner.
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Each lottery ticket sold is registered to the store from which it is sold. There is no way she could claim she bought it from another store. Funny thing is anything over $500 can only be redeemed at Lottery HQ in Little Rock.

    quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    Trash is not trash until it makes it to curbside for pickup, at least that's what the supreme court has ruled in reference to police trash searchs.

    Seems to me the same would apply in this case, therefore I'd say the gas station is the rightful owner.


    Yup, yup. Now if she was smart she wouldn't have tried to claim it at the store [:D].
  • GUNFUNCOGUNFUNCO Member Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They say lottery tickets are a tax on the mathematically challenged.

    It looks like they are also a tax on the "just plain stupid" as well.

    Who would spend good money on a ticket and then not make sure it wasn't a winner before pitching it. The just plain stupid people, I guess.
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Appears the original owner to "check" the ticket before tossing it, the clerk may have scanned it and told her it wasn't a winner. Sounds like there is more to the story than originally thought.

    There are two ways to scan a ticket to see if it is a winner, hand it to the clerk and let them scan it on their side of the register or use the self scanner if it is available. Not all stores have the self scanner for customers to use. If the customer was a regular the clerk might know if she was someone who tossed her non-winning tickets or someone who kept them for points so she could have told the customer it wasn't a winner and then dug it out of the trash after the customer left.

    I'm just trying to figure out how they know who bought the ticket unless she had signed her name on the back. If so, no question about it, it belongs to the customer.

    The customer, Sharon Duncan, discarded the ticket after an electronic scanner indicated it wasn't a winner.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,518 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by susie
    Appears the original owner to "check" the ticket before tossing it, the clerk may have scanned it and told her it wasn't a winner. Sounds like there is more to the story than originally thought.

    There are two ways to scan a ticket to see if it is a winner, hand it to the clerk and let them scan it on their side of the register or use the self scanner if it is available. Not all stores have the self scanner for customers to use. If the customer was a regular the clerk might know if she was someone who tossed her non-winning tickets or someone who kept them for points so she could have told the customer it wasn't a winner and then dug it out of the trash after the customer left.

    I'm just trying to figure out how they know who bought the ticket unless she had signed her name on the back. If so, no question about it, it belongs to the customer.

    The customer, Sharon Duncan, discarded the ticket after an electronic scanner indicated it wasn't a winner.


    Then, the purchaser has a cause of action to get paid. IF the store manager scanned it and threw it away.. she might have not told the truth about it being a winner. Manager was probably going to rescue the ticket from the trash and claim it or split it with someone else when along comes someone else and picks it out of the trash.
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