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AR15/M16 Barrel Lengths?

Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
What's everyone's take on this?

If someone was to buy just one AR platform, which barrel length should they go with?

I've heard a lot of debate on this issue, particularly on how the .223 round needs X inches of barrel to properly stabilize and stay lethal. Due to the small size of the round, it apparently relies solely on velocity to do it's damage and fragment properly.

From all the research I've done, it appears that most Special Forces groups, particularly Force Recon, prefers the 14.5 or 16" inch barrel of the M4 model for general combat due to it's small size. Urban Combat/CQB certainly swings the vote towards the shorter barrel, but the full-size (20") platform isn't very large to begin with (at least for a monkey-armed fella like myself).

Can anyone shed some light on this? How long does the AR barrel need to be in order to keep the round lethal and accurate out to standard combat distances? I know it will function fine in urban ranges (0-75 yards), but what about out in the hills or wide open territory?

Let the debate begin!

Stand And Be Counted
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Comments

  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    You are limited to a minimum of 16" anyway. Both 16" or 20 " are sufficient for your needs, and are more than adequate for 200 yards shots. The 24" is target length for 300 to 400 yards shots.

    Boomer

    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
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  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have never been in a combat situation nor have I ever been trained in any combat scenarios so i cannot tell you what would be good for combat situations.

    I have however shot and killed deer with a Bushmaster during controlled crop damage shoots from the bed of my pickup. The farthest I have shot it with the supplied sights is 160 yards, deer dropped dead in it's tracks. Both of my bushy's have 20" barrels and are surprisingly accurate. I use cheap Wally world soft point ammo in them most of the time and have no problems with accuracy and have shot deer with them. The guns loves 55 grain bullets and and shoots them well with the 20".

    I have heard that with the shorter barrels accuracy and potency suffer but I have never shot one with a 16" barrel.While I'm no expert in this and most of my experiance is from hunting and just being a good redneck, I'm extremely sure someone with a far greater knowledge of this will come along abd explain to you in full detail the capabilities of the weapon and refer you to the weapon you need.

    BTW, I love those Bushy's very much and I would not consider trading them off for anything else.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, the Carbon 15 and OA variants are shorter, but I think they're more for fun than serious business, despite the price.

    Since I consider the .223 an "assault" round, which to me merely means mid-range much like the 7.62x39, I am more comfortable with the idea of a carbine in this round.

    If you really want .223 in a rifle, I have no doubt longer barrel lengths can be more accurate. But I'd take the CAR or Dissipator type config in 14.5 to 16" and be happy as a clam.

    If I'm going to shoot a long rifle I'd prefer at least .308 to make it worthwhile lifting all that barrel out there in front of me.

    -- Life NRA Member
    If dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For the sake of discussion, let's ignore the NFA rules. Not that I'm advocating cutting the barrel below the 16" legal length, but I'm more interested in covering all the options instead of what's "legal".

    Besides, I'm considering moving to a Class III/NFA-friendly state, so the barrel length legality is a moot point to me.

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Evil - The shorter the barrel the "LOUDER" the report. Go with a 16" barrel, it will do everything you need. Don't bother with teh Class three stuff unless you are going full auto. FYI, the dissapator is a good compromise, full forearm and a short barrel. I like the A-3 upper, I put a red-dot on it. It is like cheating, damn accurate with fast acquistion of target.

    Boomer

    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've heard a lot of good things about the A3 Dissipator. If I buy another, I'll definately go the Bushmaster route.

    Thanks for the replies so far! Keep 'em coming!

    What are your thoughts on the 10.5" "Commando" version?

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Evil - Is your intent to go full Auto? FYI, the 10.5 inch is "LLLLOOOUUUDDD"

    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not sure about going full auto yet. Just depends on what's on the market when I'm ready to buy.

    How does the 10.5" barrel affect stopping power beyond 75 yards? I seriously doubt I'll go any shorter than 14.5" or 16", but I'm just curious.

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You need 2850 fps minimum at the target for the AR special effect.
    The 16" barrel will give this velocity at 150 yards. The 14"barrel
    gives it at the muzzle.
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  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a friend that has a TC Contender in .223 with a 10" barrel. At 50 yds it shoots like a rifle with good groups, at 100 yds he goes from 1/4" to 3". as far as stopping power he has shot deer in the 100 yd range but I wouldnt recomend it, the power was there but the accuracy sucks. If your wanting a spray and pray gun out to 75 yds yuo will most likely be ok if you have a good 'smith to cut the barrel and recrown it, bad crown= not very accurate.
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The advantage to the Dissy barrel is you get the 20" sight radius instead of the 15" of the 16" barrels.
    Automatic 33% accuracy increase.
    Right now I am cutting some M16 A2 barrels to a Dissy configuration but with 18" barrels.
    I only have to ream the gasport 0.004" and they function perfectly
    Still over 3050fps on the chrony and I still have a 20" sight radius.
    cpermd
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  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All this talk about 16in. barrels being the "legal" minimum is misleading.My Bushmaster XM15 E2S A3 Shorty AK model has a 14.5 inch barrel but has a 1.5 inch muzzle brake. 14.5+1.5= 16 inch "legal". I get one inch groups at 50yds. but at 100yds. it expands to three inches most of the time. I think this is due in part to the red dot type sight I have mounted on it. The dot covers about five inches of the target at that range. My lack of ability is another factor.However,I plan to buy a 20 inch "target"upper and see if the ability of both rifle and shooter can be improved upon. I did not buy a short barrel for accuracy,I bought it for fun. Depends on what you want to do with it anyway.One nice thing about ARs is I can take different uppers and swap them in seconds.
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  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bushy Ar, now you are one to understand my signature line!

    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

    http://travelor223.tripod.com
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  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andy, I agree you have a fine AR, but the 6700 sure gets heavy after a long day hunting or whatever.....
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