Shotgun for a boat?

sundowner

A buddy called me up, asking for my recommendation on a shotgun purchase for his parents. His parents are retiring, selling their home, and buying a large, ocean-going boat to live out their days on, traveling about the world and docking at various ports. They felt they should have a weapon on board due to the increase in piracy, and wanted my opinion.

I suggested the Mossberg 590 Mariner, along with the line launching kit. Reasoning for this suggestion is: marine finish, should be more resistant to corrosion in this environment; line launching kit could be put on and regular barrel stowed when approaching port to (possibly?) avoid having an illegal weapon on board; line launching capability in case of troubles; 12 gauge loaded with either tactical buck or slugs for defending the ship. His father seemed really interested, especially because of the line launching capability.

The parents have a friend that took them to the range and had them shoot some various guns -- what, I'm not sure, except for an AK. He recommended a 20 gauge shotgun. I told my buddy that as far as I know, a marine-type shotgun is not available from Mossberg or Remington in 20 gauge. Also, the line launching kit won't fit a 20 gauge Mossberg. I also expressed that today's modern, tactical 12 gauge ammo negates the difference in recoil between 20 gauge and 12 gauge.

The verdict is still out.

What do y'all think? What would you go with, given these circumstances?



Edited by - sundowner on 08/16/2002 23:19:47

Bullzeye

Remington 870 Marine

E.Williams

Mossberg 590 Mariner: all external and internal parts coated in marinecoat finish resembles stainless steel and has a 9 shot capacity.Mossberg definately offers a marine gun.It is designed specifically for harshweather enviroments.With low re-coil 2 3/4" loads I doubt you would even notice the difference in re-coil compared to a full on 20gauge and there is a world of difference to a full power 12gauge load.

Eric S. Williams

Edited by - E.Williams on 08/17/2002 00:10:44

Edited by - E.Williams on 08/17/2002 00:13:51

E.Williams

The concern about piracy would definately prompt me to bring a 12gauge over a 20 and with the Mossberg you have 10 shots all together.

Eric S. Williams

sundowner

BTT . . . any other input here?

offeror

The guy who watched them at the range probably felt that the 20 gauge was more suitable for them recoil-wise.

I would suggest looking into whether the new short shells (2 to 2 1/2") will function in one of the Mariner-style pump shotguns. If so, those should be purchased rather than the 2 3/4" rounds, as they will be easier to shoot and still offer plenty of stopping power.

A 12 gauge is an awful lot of gun to expect an elderly retired couple to handle well. Also, try on a slip-on recoil pad, or install a better one using the screws, and see if they can still shoulder the thing with the extra length or not.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

E.Williams

Tell them to take a look at a Ruger All Weather Mini-14 in .223Remington not a shotgun but a serious weapon no less and has virtually no re-coil.Itcan be had with 20 round mags and it WILL handle any pirates out there.

Eric S. Williams

Edited by - E.Williams on 08/17/2002 15:58:09

imadork

If they plan on making stops in countries that have stricter gun laws than the U.S. (i.e. Mexico, Canada, UK, etc.), a Mossberg 590 pump action would present as many legal problems as a semi-auto like the ruger. Depending on where they want to go, a "tamer" shotgun might be better, like a nice double-barrel. Yeah, the capacity is only two but it might be easier to explain to, say, the Mexican Federales or Irish Gardai that they are just peaceful travelers passing through so they don't end up in a jail on account of their probably still-illegal hunting shotgun. My personal choice that has worked well for outdoor but not marine use-- and damn the Federales-- is a standard Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights for slugs, a side-saddle, bayonet, and pistol grip speedfeed stock. With S&B slugs and buckshot, the capacity is 7+1, with shells that really are 2.75" it's 8+1. The 590 series is lightweight but heavy-duty too; it's a perfect home defense weapon. Best of luck to them.

Bullzeye

Canada may be totally Liberal with their gun laws, but Mexico is utterly fascist.

It doesnt matter what kind of a gun you have on your boat, car, or person. If you are inspected in Mexican waters and they find a gun of any kind, expect to spend a minimum of a year in a Mexican prison awaiting an arraignment.

Note that I said arraignment, not trial. You'll be lucky to get a trial within 3 years.

They still have several of our American citzens in their jails who went to cross the border for a night of drinking in Tijuana, forgetting they had left their squirrel-gun under the seat, and are now long term residents of veritable Mexican dungeons.

offeror

Sickening if true. Sounds like they should avoid Mexican waters altogether. Speaking of sabots, I still like my BRIs. I think they'd come in handy for sinking an unfriendly boat, too. Though Brenneke's would serve about as well, I think the BRI's are faster.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

frousseau

I highly recommend the shotgun in 12 guage for a boat, I would recommend, however, a semi auto shotgun. It would have the extended magazine tube and would be loaded with three #7 or #8 shot, then with three 00 Buck shot, the balance rifled slugs. Reason? First if you have to shoot inside the boat, which is the most likely scenario, #7 or #8 shot will not put a hole in your boat and damage it severly demanding going into drydoak (very expensive), second, you will have run them off with the #7 or #8 shot or they are getting seriously close to taking over, then the OO Buck comes in and can handle more than one person pershot if the distance is such. After they leave the boat, or if they don't, serious help is needed and rifled slugs tend to work wonders at this time. Practice means you can reload while firing and means you can do automatically what is needed without thinking about what to do next.After this, I would send to that outfit in Arizona that has the 12 guage ammo that sends out "Dragons Fire" which sends out a flame with sparks and all kinds of scary stuff when you are on the receiving end. If you want to hurry them on the way, have some bird bombs to send after them and into their boat, these also work wonders on the retreating. First, before anything else is considered, they must realize, there is a real threat out there with Pirates, I am not as familiar with the south-eastern seaboard as I am the south-western coastal area. There are Pirates out there and they do not take hostages, they kill quickly and if they take any prisoners, they can count on dying with pain. Nothing is to be taken lightly, you must be ready to Kill or be Killed.Nothing short of that, Period!

frousseau

Iconoclast

offeror, if my feeble memory serves, there are cases of citizens shaken down if not imprisoned indefinitely for posession of a single round of ammo, to say nothing of the firearms, in Mexico. 'Course, if these folks took on a side job as drug couriers, the Mexican authorities would not only overlook such minor infractions, they would issue them full auto weapons.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but in many countries & their territorial waters only the criminals and police agencies (often the two being synonymous) have firearms. Before these folks plan any trips, I would strongly suggest they invest some time & money in investigating which - if any - firearms they many legally have on their vessel when they are in the waters of, say, Panama, especially. The alternative routes around the world go through some very nasty spots (Cape Horn, Cape of Good Hope) where many much bigger ships with large professional crews have been lost to the weather. I don't expect the Eastern Mediterranean, Suez Canal and Arabian Gulf are great places for an elderly couple on an expensive boat, either.

Heck, there are some places in the US where they'd get in trouble! Bahston Hahbar, for example. If they wish to have a firearm on board, which I concur is an extremely intelligent idea, they will need to plan the itineraries carefully or face the real possibility of serious legal trouble, especially in the post 9/11 world.

v35

Sounds dangerous. Some pirates board in a group during the night so you need a noisy dog to give the alarm and a couple of pit bulls to do the work.
A short barreled 12 gage repeater should be a minimum for trapshooting at sea and an '06 Remington sporting autoloader to finish off sharks caught by line. A secure gun locker might be assuring .
Cruise ships have sporting shotguns on board-how do they do it?
I'd contact the US Coast Guard about the gun issue first.

quamnet

This one would work for me....

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=4966324

Gordian Blade

Back when I was piling it higher and deeper, one of the professors on my examining committee was having a tough time in his personal life and partly took it out on me. He went on sabbatical after that and decided to take his large sailing boat around the world. He was very experienced, having gone from southern Kalifornia to Hawaii and back one summer. Unfortunately, on his around-the-world cruise, he ran into a typhoon in the Indian Ocean and was never seen again.

Then there were the friends of my parents who, without much experience, bought a big boat and sailed down to South America. They also ran into weather, but they were lucky to get back alive. They lost the boat though.

I don't know the people involved or their experience, but it strikes me as incongruous that they have these big plans to sail the ocean but can't handle the recoil of a normal 12 gauge. They sound like they have the idea of sailing into the sunset, just the two of them. Very romantic, very foolish. I hope they at least have the money and good sense to pay someone younger to be on their crew.

And finally, about the pirates: They scare the hell out of me. The ocean is a big place and when the time comes, it will likely happen fast with no help. Older people are easy prey. While a shotgun is a good idea -- certainly better than nothing -- I think they should also have at least one large-caliber semi-auto rifle and lots of ammo, including tracer. (The tracer would be to set the enemy boat on fire.) They should try to get synthetic/stainless if possible and keep it in a watertight container until needed. They should have at least one firearm per person. They need to practice, practice, practice on land before they go. If they aren't prepared to go to the max to defend themselves, they shouldn't be venturing far from shore.

Legally, I don't know what firearms they can get away with in what country. Obviously, the pirates don't care. You can bet pirates will be well armed no matter where they operate.

Better they buy a large RV and spend the rest of their days seeing the US and visiting relatives. Or stay in US coastal waters away from known trouble spots (= drug traffic). Just my opinion.

Lowrider

For a shotgun, here's another vote for the marine Mossberg. I believe I'd also have a good battle rifle on board. An AR or FAL. Some of these pirate stories I've read have the pirates outfitted with machine guns and other military hardware. Mr. & Mrs. boatowner might have a hard time defending the ship no matter how well armed they are.

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

doomsknight62

I'd go with a Remington 870 Express Magnum. It is available in a blued finish, so it is rust resistant, and can use a variety of ammunition. I'm going to agree with everybody else on the different kinds of ammo- little shot, then big shot, then slugs. Steady progression of force is key. In Mexico? Be extremely careful. Even the police have a reputation for corruption- they could be just as bad as anyone trying to board your boat.

" God is in His Heaven, All is Right in the World. "