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Erie police to carry AR-15 assault rifles
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
Erie police to carry AR-15 assault rifles
Sunday, April 28, 2002
By The Associated Press
ERIE -- As police in Erie await the delivery of AR-15 assault rifles for "frontline" officers, opponents argue the weapons are unnecessary and too dangerous.
Police Chief Charles Bowers acknowledges his officers have yet to face off with body armor-wearing bank robbers or face a Columbine-type confrontation, but said the police force should nonetheless be prepared.
Each Erie police officer now carries a 9 mm handgun and has access to a shotgun, kept in each squad car. The rifles would replace shotguns in some squad cars, Bowers said.
"In a situation like a school shooting or a workplace shooting, a suspect could be in a hallway 50 or 60 yards away and your pistol would be about useless because you wouldn't have the accuracy," he said.
The pattern of buckshot fired by a shotgun spreads at longer distances and could endanger bystanders, he said.
Bowers said the .223-caliber bullets fired by an AR-15 have greater accuracy at longer distances than both the 9 mm handgun and the shotgun.
But the American Civil Liberties Union and others have voiced concern about the increased firepower.
"Tragedies like the MOVE house in Philadelphia, the killing of Randy Weaver's wife and son and Waco have happened when heavily armed police have been ordered too quickly by civilian executives to resolve standoffs," said Robert Cogan, president of the American Civil Liberties Union's northwestern Pennsylvania chapter.
In 1985, 500 police officers encircled a row house occupied by the radical group MOVE and demanded their surrender. A 90-minute gun battle erupted, followed by a daylong standoff. Police eventually dropped a satchel of explosives on the roof, igniting a fire that killed 11 people.
Bob McDowell, who owns an Erie shooting range and gun shop, said police should be armed as well as or better than criminals, but that there had been no need for the weapons in the past.
"When was the last time someone committed a crime with a rifle [in Erie]?" he asked. "When was the last time police had to shoot 100 yards at someone?"
Bowers said an increasing number of police departments were using semiautomatic, assault-style rifles, including the Pennsylvania State Police. Troopers must undergo specialized training before using the weapon, spokesman Jack Lewis said.
Bowers said the rifles would be used by only those officers who have received advanced training and that officers would have to qualify before being allowed access to the weapon.
Jim Pasco, executive director of the national Fraternal Order of Police, said more powerful weaponry was not always necessary
"The chief is wrong [by saying] that if you're a progressive department, you're carrying assault weapons," he said. "Officers should be carrying weapons most suited for them." http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020428erie0428p8.asp
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Sunday, April 28, 2002
By The Associated Press
ERIE -- As police in Erie await the delivery of AR-15 assault rifles for "frontline" officers, opponents argue the weapons are unnecessary and too dangerous.
Police Chief Charles Bowers acknowledges his officers have yet to face off with body armor-wearing bank robbers or face a Columbine-type confrontation, but said the police force should nonetheless be prepared.
Each Erie police officer now carries a 9 mm handgun and has access to a shotgun, kept in each squad car. The rifles would replace shotguns in some squad cars, Bowers said.
"In a situation like a school shooting or a workplace shooting, a suspect could be in a hallway 50 or 60 yards away and your pistol would be about useless because you wouldn't have the accuracy," he said.
The pattern of buckshot fired by a shotgun spreads at longer distances and could endanger bystanders, he said.
Bowers said the .223-caliber bullets fired by an AR-15 have greater accuracy at longer distances than both the 9 mm handgun and the shotgun.
But the American Civil Liberties Union and others have voiced concern about the increased firepower.
"Tragedies like the MOVE house in Philadelphia, the killing of Randy Weaver's wife and son and Waco have happened when heavily armed police have been ordered too quickly by civilian executives to resolve standoffs," said Robert Cogan, president of the American Civil Liberties Union's northwestern Pennsylvania chapter.
In 1985, 500 police officers encircled a row house occupied by the radical group MOVE and demanded their surrender. A 90-minute gun battle erupted, followed by a daylong standoff. Police eventually dropped a satchel of explosives on the roof, igniting a fire that killed 11 people.
Bob McDowell, who owns an Erie shooting range and gun shop, said police should be armed as well as or better than criminals, but that there had been no need for the weapons in the past.
"When was the last time someone committed a crime with a rifle [in Erie]?" he asked. "When was the last time police had to shoot 100 yards at someone?"
Bowers said an increasing number of police departments were using semiautomatic, assault-style rifles, including the Pennsylvania State Police. Troopers must undergo specialized training before using the weapon, spokesman Jack Lewis said.
Bowers said the rifles would be used by only those officers who have received advanced training and that officers would have to qualify before being allowed access to the weapon.
Jim Pasco, executive director of the national Fraternal Order of Police, said more powerful weaponry was not always necessary
"The chief is wrong [by saying] that if you're a progressive department, you're carrying assault weapons," he said. "Officers should be carrying weapons most suited for them." http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020428erie0428p8.asp
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Comments
black
Find cover because theres a black cloud over head.
Some may not like you, get over it or get use to it.
My gun is prettier than yours, and it's a Glock!
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
That might increase their usefulness.
In anything but a long-range straight up gunfight, I'd rather have a .45, thank you very much.
A fine cigar gladdens the soul."Remember, there are only two: The Quick, and the Dead"
Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
Typical Left Wing * thinking. Let's wait for the massacre to happen, then properly arm our police!
Everyone knows I'm no friend to JBT government thugs, but our peace officers deserve all the firepower they can get their hands on.
To touch on the ".223 Subject":
While I'm an AK fan when it comes to CQB/MOUT/Urban *-Whoopin, there's nothing wrong with the AR15/M16. Anyone who scoffs at the .223 needs to have their head examined. The .223 is a near perfect round, except that it sucks when trying to go through anything like a car door or window. Even small leaves can deflect it's trajectory when firing beyond handgun ranges. That said, I prefer .30 caliber rifles be it my AK or M1A.
Bullzeye:
You're making a monkey out of yourself. Sit back and learn from the older and more experienced crowd. You'll be a better person and shooter because of it.
blackclouder:
Hehehehehehehehehe!
Stand And Be Counted
Edited by - Alpine on 05/02/2002 20:05:58
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
A) How do you know whether or not some of us has 'been there'.
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
I was responding to the comments by the Cheif and ACLU. If you don't understand I will be happy to diagram the exact comment I was responding to. But then why waste anymore time/bandwith.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
"Some of you people really need to get a grip, you haven't been there, so don't be talkin smack."
Sure looks like you were talking to us, to me.
I'm not afraid of the dark...the dark is afraid of me!
Stand And Be Counted
If I start taking advice from 7mm, I may as well drop out of school and get tutored by Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel.
And I do have the experience. It's just that some people refuse to even consider that an 18 year old can make his own damn decisions.
I cant express one stinking opinion without about 15 tons of pissed off redneck dropping on my head.
I prefer boxers to briefs. Would you like to tell me how stupid I am for that, too?
A fine cigar gladdens the soul."Remember, there are only two: The Quick, and the Dead"
You might need to place your left hand behind your right knee, and with a twisting motion, pull your head out of your *.
Start acting like a grownup, you're old enough to do that, and folks will treat you like a grownup.
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
"In anything but a long-range straight up gunfight, I'd rather have a .45, thank you very much."
7mm counters with a caustic slap in the face:
"Yep the AR is useless, just about as useless as an 18 year old's opinion. Take advice from a punk kid and you wil go far."
Would someone please tell me how the hell I'm supposed to be wrong there?!
A fine cigar gladdens the soul."Remember, there are only two: The Quick, and the Dead"
I have. I will take it in CQB or long range combat, anyday. Bullzeye, you are forming and un-educated opinion in my opinion. Calm down, listen to the "old" guys. Why? Because they know. I learn so much on this board that it has saved me having to learn the hard way. The hard way ain't fun and can be dangerous in our practices. My advice to you is simple, listen and learn. Don't fly off the handle so quick to defend your opinion. This will help you keep an open mind which in turn might just allow you to teach yourself something.
The practice of listening is far more important than talking. Try it and you will see I am right.
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
My personal favorite....pull your ears and say "POP"....not loud enough do it again....(after a significant amount of noise and confusion)....that's the sound of your head coming out of your *....now move out turd
(I wouldn't advise doing this if you're in some "soft skills" () mos, or work with women, or are just in some f***ed up unit, or....come to think of it the places are getting fewer and fewer. Ok, how bout this one, if you're in a unit where you can still get away with "wall-to-wall" counseling () you can use this one.
Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed
Now Bullzeye has often times said it is ineffective, weak, inaccurate, undependable and outright junk. he claims anybody who uses it is stupid. He makes claims that the military is stupid for using it. He claiams OUR military is not near as smart as the Russian's military. He has done this many many many times. he has a hatred for this gun and chambering, he bashes anybody who defends it with pure mean and nasty comments. he talks as if he has been in combat, when all he has ever done is read books. The info he uses he takes and stretches it to use in his quest for glory. he wonmders why people get mad and throws even more insults. His hatred for that gun has cost himim freinds but yet he still to this day insists on slamming defenders of the M16. After his comments about the United States Armed Services I cannot see how something that angers him so can he join. he hates the gun and the peole that says it is good, but yet he wants to join the Military?
According to some people, just because a gun was made in communist country it's now useless for some reason.
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
As for the .223 as a round,,if you don't like 'em,,SO WHAT!! I do like the .223. I'm going out today with 3 of my rifles that are .223 and guess what?? I betcha I have a blast!!,,,,, Nope,,changed my mind,,,just taking the .308 out,,,,
"No dear, this isn't a new gun,,I've had this one for quite a long time,,honest,,"
Edited by - sodbuster on 05/04/2002 13:55:18
Wonder what ever happened to protect and serve??
Just my 2 cents!