In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Humanitarian aid for Palestine?!

IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
News item I heard on the radio this AM . . . .

There are Palestinian emissaries, high officials in Arafat's PLO, in DC at the moment asking for humanitarian aid for their people. Seems that with all the sanctions imposed by the Israelis in response to the bombings, the people are suffering from lack of food and medical supplies? I guess I'm just a stupid country ignoramus, but perhaps if these same people didn't support the sponsor of the murders, the victims of those attacks would not retaliate? And just how many Palestinians was that who were dancing in the streets in celebration on Sept. 11? Let them beg somewhere else - say Libya, Iraq or Iran - the only aid I would send them would be delivered from a B52. They started this, they support those who wage this campaign of murder and now they want help because they are paying for those choices? Don't think so, pal.

Comments

  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have them get their money from the Saudi's. The Saudi's like giving large amounts of cash received from the U.S. (from oil sales) to terrorists.
    Also we need to hold back the billions that we give Israel each year until the violence stops!
    sodbuster is an American Christian infidel,,,and just pretty proud of it

    "Just my opinion."

    Edited by - sodbuster on 08/11/2002 00:05:38
  • 13FOX13FOX Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    We shouldn't give any foreign aid to anyone without the American people voting to do so. Why should we as tax payers suffer to better the lives of those very same individuals who would as soon kill us as look at us. I say piss on em, let them figure out their own problems and leave us the heck alone.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Turn that whole area into a sheet of glass.

    Thats what happens to sand in a nuclear blast.

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, i say let them go to the u n for aide. and i agree with your sediments about no aide to either side till the fighting stops and they kiss our collective seats.i think no foriegn aide unless 100 percent of the voters approved. respt submitted dads-freehold
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    All you have to do is find a humanitarian Palestinian to give it to. Unfortunately, they all seem to be in agreement in error.

    As the terrorist bomber says to Arnold in COLLATERAL DAMAGE -- "You hate and want to kill -- I hate and want to kill -- we are both the same." Arnold replies: "I'm not like you. I only want to kill you!"

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dads - my fault, I neglected to mention they are begging at the UN, also. Classic, as far as I know, we have the technology to drill for oil through glass . . . so not much reason to * all those sand fleas and let Allah sort 'em out . . . they did, after all, declare jihad . . . perhaps they should reap what they have sown.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Got to say: You Christians are right there with your compassion.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Palestinians have received $2,000,000,000. dollars in help from all over the world donations .....

    $1,980,000,000. has gone to weapons and luxury.........

    $20,000,000 to development and commerce............


    The US have expended in weapons enought money to give a palace to every living being on this planet.......

    YET all you Hipocrites that speak so much of religion and mercy do
    RECES FECES about it ......

    All seems to allways say "Jesus died for my sins in the cross" or
    allah will save the day , or Crishna will get me in a flying saucer
    ol Elvis will come and get me .....

    But No one wants to take responsibility for finishing off this dammed rotten system we live in .......

    Dont blame me if Jesus steps off the cross and slams your head with a LEAD pipe ......Or Mohamed stallion pisses in you lawn ,or Elvis
    knocks on the door to get his records back and no UFO comes to take
    you Up there...

    I warned you....... Aquiesence will be the end of the world.....

    JD




    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • E.WilliamsE.Williams Member Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dont really want to get flamed or drawn into debate here,I will just express a opinion.America needs to start minding its own yard so to speak.We are getting to deep lately.We are already in combat with a apparently extrememly large organization because it has not been resolved yet,We are sticking our nose into affairs between Israel and Palestine who have been fighting for decades without our help and apparently doing fine,And we are speaking of war with Iraq AGAIN.Thats 2 troublesome situations we dont need right now.Why take on more problems when you dont have the first taken care of?Escpecially with all the ills in this country.I have been rather dis-illusioned ever sice I saw how much money was being poured into feeding the Afghan people when right here in this country there are people who will go to sleep tonight homeless tonight and on empty stomachs.Americas priorities seemed a little mixed up to me.We need to mind our own busines for a change and take care of one problem before we start with another.

    Eric S. Williams

    Edited by - E.Williams on 08/09/2002 16:31:37
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Humanitarian aid to the Palestinians???

    Why dont WE just buy the C4 and nails and blow ourselves up? It'll save them the time and effort.

    Screw the Palestinians. Let them eat their turbans and pages from the Koran to survive. (just that image has me giggling out loud)

    Of course, I'd be more than happy to donate lead suppliments to anyone who wants a handout from an American...

    So Mohammed Abdel Aziz Sheik bin-Sandflea bin-Raghead would like a handout, would he? Does he want it in the head or the stomach?
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would be willing to let the Palestinians go it alone if we would also let the Israelis go it alone. But you see, when Palestenians see little children get killed by Israeli bombs made in the USA, they get mad at America as well as Israel. I don't blame the Arabs for being angry with America. There is a reason why people kill themselves for their cause, and it is not because they are dirty, or stupid, or because their country has sand fleas.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Russian Kalashnikov has been sold to far more foreign groups than the American M-16. The fact is, Israel makes its own weapons quite well nowadays, thank you, and has the money to buy from whomever they choose. They can have French Mirages as easily as F-16s, and have done so. They also produced a slew of small arms in-country.

    Your logic of "blame the manufacturer who is selling the weapons" sounds like Brady-esque rationalization to me. That argument doesn't hold water in domestic lawsuits, and it doesn't hold water internationally. You forget that what the Palestinians were originally mad at was the concept of Israel's right to exist. They are mad at us because our founding principles also support their right to exist. They have existed, since 1949, as a nation, thanks not to the U.S. but to, as I understand the voting, the United Nations or some similar international group.

    We are also friends of the English but the Palestinians aren't incensed about that. People who persist in blowing themselves up certainly do have a reason for it. But America is not the oppressor. America keeps offering the peace table, and the parties involved keep blowing each other up. Let them be mad at each other, not at the supporters of stability, fairness and world peace. I really think the Arab nations are only just beginning to come around to the fact that Israel is not going to be snuffed out. That's a pretty slow reflex, since 1949.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - offeror on 08/09/2002 18:17:59
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This planet is fairly lucky that its one remaining superpower has a basically benevolent attitude regarding the rest of the world.

    We tried the "mind our own business" thing before World War II, though, and found that appeasement doesn't work when you have lots of zealous young Nazis willing to die for a concept called the Fatherland.

    We wound up becoming so good at making weapons and soldiers that GI Joe and Rosie the Riveter helped win the war. Since then, we have tried to be a force for world stability and a deterrent to a Third World War.

    For all our faults, that legacy could be a LOT worse.

    Terrorists don't want us minding our own business. The last thing they want is for us to let their problem be their problem. In fact, they came a very long way to knock down the twin towers in an effort to get us more involved in their concerns. Well, they've succeeded. Japan lived to regret "awakening the sleeping tiger," and so will the Arab terrorists.

    Terrorism is fading fast as a legitimate route to political gain, particularly when the targets are non-combatants. You can try to mind our own business, and then 5 more American citizens are killed by a bomb at Hebrew University. We cannot afford to make it acceptable to kill an American overseas, whatever else we may think. Nor can we ever make it acceptable to kill an American on U.S. soil.

    Every time we try to mind our own business, somebody walks into the middle of a crowd of those who are doing so and blows them up. Does that really sound to you like 'mind your own business?' When they come here and blow people up, does that sound like they want people over here to forget about them? Kind of counter-productive to come over here and whack the wasp's nest, don't you think? They're like the punk who is ticked off because the little kid they want to beat up has a big hulking friend who will twist their arm if they try it. So they try it, we twist their arm, and the bully cries "bully!" Waaaah!

    I'm really tired of finger pointing. Anyone who thinks we'd chase them all away from the peace table, raise your hand. No one? Well, there ya go then....

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • E.WilliamsE.Williams Member Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see your point but if they kill Americans here or abroad then its more our busiess than 2 countries having at each other.I think we take too much responsibility to solve evryones problems or atleast it seems that way.I dont know about other UN countires but do they contibute to heplig the poor and hungry of the world?Certaily some countries can pitch in to tote the note.I hardly ever see where some other country cotributed to a countries lack of resource and econom and I see where we have hepled or comtributed to that nearly everyday.I have no problem helping people in need or retallating on a ridiculous and unprovoked attack on citizens of this country when they did nothing but get up and go to work.I just tend to think that if we plan on establishing peace and helping others to correct we should cocentrate on our own before we go pointing the path we dont follow.

    Eric S. Williams
  • E.WilliamsE.Williams Member Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And I am not saying terrorism is right because its not but not all people will live like Americans.And if they attack us than damn right we should attack and wipe the slate clean.But to try to force our way of living on a country we do not own or in-habit is in a sense communist and I say that because just because we think it the right way to live other countries will not always agree diverse people and cultures live diverse ways.Just like people not agreeing with gun liberals or politicians saying its my way and thts how its gonnsa be.We dont like people telling us how to live and that we cant or shouldnt own guns.How should someone act when outsiders come into their country and tell them they cant live like that or run their country that way.Like I said not everyone will live the American way.If they are here within these borders than they should and we should enforce our ways and logics because this is the place to live the American way.In another country its up to them.Americans shoulder too much of the burden for solving the worlds problems.

    Eric S. Williams

    Edited by - E.Williams on 08/09/2002 18:48:04

    Edited by - E.Williams on 08/09/2002 19:07:17
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry Iconoclast, I have to oppose you on this one. I say send them all the humanitarians they want!

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He Dog, I caught that! I have no problem supplying those erstwhile individuals in large quantities as well. May I volunteer Jesse Jackson, Jimmy Carter, the DemoCrap Congressional / Senatorial delegation and most of Kalifornia for starters? LOL! Heck, I'll even let them take all the Kalifornian air / water or whatever it is that makes them so loony out there on the Left Coast.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offeror, the jet that dropped the bomb that killed the Hamas leader 2 weeks ago, plus killed 14 children and women, was an F16, thank you very much. But of course Israel has lots of money to buy arms, thanks to 3 to 5 billion annually in US aid. Yes we needed an interventionist policy in 1939 and damn good we got into that war, but many people, like you, are still looking for that next Adolf Hitler. I heard your line in 1970 about Ho Chi Minh, the Commies would take over Saigon, and then what next, they might get Burma or Thailand. Boy would we be in trouble if that happened. If Muslims attacked us for the reason that they hate the West due to materialism and godlessness, they would have bombed Oslo. Norway has a standard of living that meets or exceeds our own, and they have an even lower rate of church attentance. Forty five percent of the children born in Norway today are illegitimate. They havn't attacked Norway or Canada or any other symbol of Western decadence. We were attacked because of our blind support for Israel.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

    Edited by - allen griggs on 08/09/2002 19:08:56
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NUKE 'EM ... NUKE THE WHOLE FRIGGIN CONTINENT. TURN IT INTO A VAST
    LIFELESS GLASS FIELD
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    allen --
    I'm the guy who said I would have shot the killers of Kennedy in the back of the head, given the chance. It was Lyndon Johnson who started the full scale war in Viet Nam, and we might have avoided the whole mess with Kennedy. I was not singing the falling domino song in 70 at all. No mind reading there.

    I don't buy the fact that all actions are equally 'terrorist.' I don't buy the fact that decisive military action is the same as a bomber in a shopping mall full of random people's wives and children. A mall is not a military target. The F-16 was on an assassination mission against a senior terrorist leader with a known dossier of violence. When the terrorists don't listen to calls to stop, they are going to get bigger responses. Too bad their terrorist leaders don't live out in the country someplace, but surrounding yourself with civilians is the oldest military coward's trick in the book.

    As for foreign aid, it seems like we're giving everybody foreign aid. At least Israel isn't extorting arms for hostages.

    There are people in this country (and I'm not a church-going guy, so you're way off base there too) who believe that it is unthinkable in Biblical terms for us not to preserve and protect the "Holy Land." They are the same people who believe this country was founded "under God." These people would consider a U.S. government which did not support Israel to be traitorous. I am not among those either, necessarily. But as a practical matter you don't really expect the U.S. to abandon Israel if you're paying attention. There'd be riots in our streets. We'd have unprecedented domestic civil unrest if this government decided to become neutral on Israel and let them dangle in the Middle Eastern wind, even though we're closer to it now with Sharon's intransigence than we've been in a while.

    It has nothing to do with what I think. But I don't get the feeling Americans are about to decide not to support the survival of Israel. So when you take that option off the table, what you have left is, how do you insure Israel's survival without being a bully? You let them do the work themselves, and you keep trying to get everyone to the peace table. But you don't co-sign the BS that terrorism against civilian busses, nightclubs and markets is the "same as" military action against military targets.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    we got military cuts from the klinton era to fix,the army say they cant go to iraq right now.we got people living in our own streets.piss on the rags,its time we took care of the home front

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offeror, I was not addressing whether you go to church or not, I didn't make that clear. Moslem fundamentalists above all detest atheists. This is one reason they felt such a call for a holy war against Russia in Afghanistan, they could match their religion against state sponsored atheism. So they like people who go to church more than atheists and I was using Norway as an example of a people who are more atheistic than we are, in the eyes of radical Moslems. Israelis talk about how we must join them to fight terror, but Israel used to like terrorists. That was when the founders of Israel were using terrorism against the British. Menachem Begin blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem during the founding of the State of Israel and 45 people were killed, mostly British. Later Begin became the Prime Minister of Israel.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    We were attacked because our leaders talk a big game but fall short of doing what is necessary to insure that noone would dare attack us again. We need to make an example of someone. We need to be midevil. Im talkin Ghengus Khaan. Total and complete destruction. We will reap the whirlwind of our own destruction due to our politically correct rules of engagement. If your in a street fight and a guy pulls a knife and you have a gun, what do you do? I say three tap the bastards and end it once and for all.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    4God, I agree. I also heard portions of a discussion yesterday (on National Pissant Radio, naturally) talking about how we had to be receptive to the concerns of the Europeans and not just 'go it alone,' blah, blah, blah. Screw the Frogs (especially!!). Screw the Krauts. Lead, follow, or get out of the way, because this is the way it will be. The way they do things, they will still be arguing for diplomacy three days after the sand fleas take over Europe.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The whole of Africa is the worst for decolonization.
    Let England, France, Germany, Belgium, Spain and Portugal
    retake their former colonies and restore order. There's no light
    at the end of the tunnel of butchery, savagery, lawlessness and corruption for any of the present African states
    despite oil and mineral riches.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    allen --
    Sorry I misunderstood the religious reference. We do agree on the history of Israel. The Irgun and the Hagana played much the same role against the British as the IRA has done more recently.

    But in practical terms, that's ancient history, and before they were voted a nation. Castro was a revolutionary and once upon a time a friend of America. Things change.

    At what point do you let the status quo become valid? Being mad about something for a while is one thing, but staying mad for years or even centuries is called "having a resentment," and it eats people up inside. Eventually, you've gotta let go, be tolerant, and deal with the present facts. How silly is it that we still have a few Christians who are mad at the Jews for supposedly "killing Christ?" Pretty silly. Now that's a resentment that's 2000 years old. The Jews' and the Muslims' resentments are about as old, as are their resentments against us over the Crusades. All very unhealthy stuff, and unhelpful, because the people responsible are all long dead and there's nothing to be done about it anyway. I apologize for the extreme example, but pick any other example you like and it works the same way. Eventually, you have to legitimize the decision made by the United Nations in 1949 about Israel. And if we as a civilization want to outgrow terrorism as a method of solving our problems, I think we're overdue. It makes less and less sense to point to the past, whether you're talking about the Crusades, the Dark Ages or the Spanish Inquisition and say, "well THEY did it, so I CAN do it."

    Not if we decide to outgrow cruelty. We've done that in other areas of life. Why not outgrow terrorism? Because the Palestinians want to win first? Because the IRA does? I think the IRA may actually be getting the message. The world has a concensus going here, that we're going to brand terrorism as internationally unacceptable. So the past remains interesting, but the methods outmoded. And no matter what they say, "occupation" is not the same thing as terrorism. It may not be fair, and it's certainly a state of martial law imposed from without, but occupation by soldiers and blowing civilians into little bits and pieces at random are two very different kinds of bad behavior. It is far more violent by its very nature than simple occupation. People get hurt resisting occupation of course, but the better choice now is to stop the violent acts of terror against shoppers, dancers, stroller pushers and diners, and figure a way of getting uniformed Israelis out of Palestinian streets. The former is terrorism, and the world seems to have decided that from now on that is going to be criminal behavior. A criminal in this country is not allowed to profit from his actions. For the same reason, we don't negotiate with criminals (in good faith) as a matter of law enforcement policy. We have the right to say, terrorism is a relic of the past, and insist that it not be rewarded. Then we have to help the Palestinians get the Israelis out of their streets.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - offeror on 08/11/2002 03:40:59
  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Makes equaly as much sense as a dental plan for rattlesnakes.

    It would be awfule if those arabs had to commit acts of terror on an empty stomach.
  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "humanitarian" and "palestine" do NOT belong in the same sentence.
    its a contradiction in terms. jmho
    barto

    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You may love Palestenians, or you may detest them. You may wish we would cut aid to Israel, or you may think 5 billion annually is not nearly enough. But the devil is on the loose over there, and if the hell storm over there continues, Judge Dread's color photo above is the future. And the nukes will not just involve the middle east, but the whole world.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    allen --
    Rest assured, someone has a contingency plan to contain nuclear activity to the opposite side of the globe. While the winds might carry us some fallout, the Pacific Ocean would absorb much of it. There would be much suffering on that side of the world. India and Pakistan have missiles aimed at each other. But it is highly unlikely that there would be any concerted effort, by anyone with significant nuclear technology, let alone the technical delivery system capability, to reach us on the other side of the world with nukes, no matter how much they might like to do so. I am confident we would take any necessary steps to prevent such an eventuality, and I'm sure our military is capable of foiling any significant nuclear attack effectively.

    That is not to say it is impossible for a small nuke to be somehow smuggled over the border and detonated here, by land or air. But even that would be a comparatively isolated event, not a "country-killer." Don't forget, we used to test nukes in the desert here above ground and they were not world-ending events.



    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sleazy Colombian dopers smuggle cocaine into our country by the ton. A determined foe could smuggle in nukes. Let us say they brought one up the East River, one into Boston Harbor, one up the Potomac, one into San Francisco Bay, one into the waters near Seattle. Well, they wouldn't even need to clear customs, got that nuke on an old freighter, or maybe on a yacht. A nuke going off in Manhattan would make 9/11 look like child's play. They didn't need to build a bomb to drop the WTC and they don't need an ICBM to get nukes over here.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Sign In or Register to comment.