A question of scatter - Part Two ?

RugerNiner

Would it be possible to make a 10ga. Pump Blunderbuss for Home Defence?
I'm serious about this. What if the barrel progressively got larger starting at the Chamber?

Of course this would be strictly Home Defence.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

E.Williams

Do you meen one of those old horn barrel Pilgrim guns?It sounds like a good idea.I like the 10 gauge and if I could get it scatter well I would use it.I hope someone validates this idea cause I will sure find one or have it made.

Eric S. Williams

RugerNiner

I can't see where there would be a law against it as long as it's over 18 1/2".

The barrel I'm refering to would not be expanded as much as an original Blunderbuss, But two inches would be nice.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

offeror

Since the minimum rifle barrel length is 18," a bell on the end of the 18" tube would not likely open up the pattern very quickly. You'd need a blunderbuss handgun to do that in 15-30 feet. Frankly, I'm not sure a handgun length barrel firing a shotshell would require a bell shaped end to spread quicker. Look for a handgun chambered for a large shotshell, or have one custom made. 3-6 inches of gun barrel firing a 12 gauge with #8 shot might accomplish something like you are looking for.

The closest thing to what you want right now may be the Thunder 5.


Try this link: http://www.thunder5.com/


- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

offeror

By the way, the wider pattern used to be the attraction of the double-barrel coach gun. The only trouble with giving someone both barrels is, then your gun is empty. At least with the Thunder 5 you get five shots of .410.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

RugerNiner

I was thinking of a progressive tapered barrel starting at the chamber and spreading to about two inches at the end. That way it could start spreading going down the barrel as soon as it was fired.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

pickenup

Interesting food for thought. And you give these $$million dollar ideas away for free?

If I knew then, what I know now.

Shootist3006

I hate to burst any bubbles but the blunderbuss did NOT 'spread' shot any more than any other shotgun. The bell shaped muzzle was to assist in LOADING not spreading shot.

If you started to expand the barrel at the chamber (sort of like a narrow funnel?) you are going to lose a LOT of velocity and energy. There are spreaders you can put INSIDE the shot shell that will increase the pattern width but not as much as Eric wanted. There are also muzzle 'breaks' that will strip off the wad and give a wider pattern but none that will cause any significant expansion in household distances. Not many homes have a clear shot distance of much over 10 yards and at that range a shot pattern (from a cylinder
bore) will be 3 to 4 inches in diameter.

Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis

TOOLS1

Rugerniner Remember if Ruger dont make it you dont need it?
Eric I think what you are looking for is called a Claymore. It would have the spread you want. Maby you could duct tape it to a handle or something.
TOOLS

E.Williams

Nah claymores are to hard to get thats why I want to find a 10gauge pistol it will make just as much of a mess.You might see 10gauges as overkill but when it comes to a intruder there is no such thing,hell Id hit em with a Howitzer if I had one.

Eric S. Williams

The firearms consultant

Contrary to popular belief, you do have to aim a shot gun. You would be surprised how easy it is to miss even at very short range. Shot placement is still important, practice, practice, practice!

I might not always tell you the truth, but I will never lie to you!

Nighthawk

I agree about having to aim,and a 10ga of that design would sure be uncomfortable to shoot.The Mossberg Model 835 12 ga is over bored to 10ga specs,although most dont see them as self Defense guns,but they work well with the 31/2 in Magnums.I have the camo Model but The wooden stock models are nice looking guns.


Best!!

Rugster

offeror

We were not suggesting the bell shaped blunderbuss spread shot, only trying to describe the shape under consideration. If this is a million dollar idea for home defense, I think it will look like this -- a ten or 12 gauge handgun, with a barrel not much longer than the round itself. Anything beyond that would be a "spread choke." This would allow the shot to spread at the moment of release from the shell. This method will work better than confining the shot down the length of any standard cylinder bore. Shot which is free to spread upon exiting the shell is your best bet for spreading to the degree you'd like to see at 10 or 15 feet. The Thunder 5, with its 2" barrel, is the closest thing to this right now in a .410 gauge. The only way to do better is to chamber a snubnose handgun for 12 gauge. Perhaps we could contact the Thunder 5 people about the likelihood of a 12 gauge? Once you have the delivery system for a 12 gauge round in a supershort barrel, the need for a spread choke could be evaluated. It might or might not improve the pattern. Of course, one could always cut the barrel off a Street Sweeper, but then you're back in very hot water with the BATF, since it is now not only on the ban list but an NFA gun as well. I sure wish I'd have bought one when they were under $400.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

offeror

I have e-mailed a question out to the Thunder 5 folks; I'll let you know if there is any reaction. The trouble with my idea for a shortie handgun is that the 12 gauge will kick like the devil, requiring a two-hand grip, and will wind up looking like a machine pistol, like a tec-9 perhaps or an H&K minigun. Then the NFA will get ahold of that too, I'm afraid. Ah well, a bit of mental exercise never hurt anybody...

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

E.Williams

Offeror what do you know about the Thunder 5?Quality?I have seen but never fired one.I have also never fired a .410 shotgun in my entire life would this round be sufficient for fast incapacitation?Not necessarily OSS but within a couple of center mass hits?Im very interested to see what they say about the 12gauge pistol it would probably weigh more then a Desert Eagle though.I have seen little double barrel Derringers that shoot a specially designed 12 gauge round for protection against Bears what about one of those?

Eric S. Williams

offeror

E --
The Thunder 5 is big, but as far as I know the quality is just fine. It fires .45 LC as well as .410 shot shells and holds 5 rounds. As for the derringer, derringers are fine if you don't have a gun on you. Seriously, if a two round derringer fits your needs, I suppose it would have a little bit of merit, but I think you'd be better served by a double-barrel coach gun than a two-shot 12 gauge derringer. The derringer will not be very accurate, controllable or easy to operate, and will probably hurt like the devil.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

RugerNiner

Have you ever fired a cheap single 12ga. shotgun without a recoil pad?
It hurts like hell. I doubt a 12ga. pistol can be produced that is even halfway manageable. I'm pretty sure it would fly out of your hand, especially if your palms are sweating in a tense situation.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

E.Williams

That was the first shot gun I ever fired was a single 12 with a hard plastic screw in Butt plate.It was a Stevens Model 94C.Maybe 20 gauge would be better than 12.

Eric S. Williams

E.Williams

What about a .410 though is it a sufficient round?Because I do like how that Thunder 5 looks.

Eric S. Williams

offeror

I just received a reply from John, the Website manager at Thunder 5, as follows:

"Hi Steve,
If you can hold a 8-10-12 ga. pistol in one hand, you're a better man then I. We feel that 5-.410's does the job quite well. (and it's legal in most states). Anything bigger than 1/2" is regulated in all states as a shotgun needing 18" of barrel to fire a shell of any kind.

Thanks for your inquiry,
John"

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

offeror

The .45 Long Colt is a serious round, and it is dwarfed by the .410 shotgun shell. I have a feeling that for indoor defense at distances under 30 feet, it would be quite good. The gun is unique looking because it has to be mostly cylinder and very little barrel in order to chamber the .410. Given that they do not believe a larger shell would make for a viable one-handed gun, I'd say you have your answer. And they were very kind to answer an inquiry so quickly and take it seriously too. Also, check the website and you'll see you can have some very nice finishes added to these guns for customization.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

E.Williams

I think I have my answer to.I want one.

Eric S. Williams

allen griggs

It would be interesting to do some field trials with the .410. The dead guys I saw from a load of #8s were shot with 12 gauge. I mean, you could get some 1 inch pine boards, set them at 30 feet and see what kind of penetration you get. I know the .410 has dinky energy compared to the 12 gauge. The pattern on that little piston would be interesting.

"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."