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SHIPPING A GUN BY MAIL

CORRENCORREN Member Posts: 466 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
I need to ship a rifle from calif. to alaska,the post office in my town tells me i cant mail a gun to myself is this true. Is there a company such as fed ex or ups who will allow me to ship a firearm from myself to myself.
Corren

Comments

  • CORRENCORREN Member Posts: 466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BEEN THINKING ABOUT MOVING FOR SOMETIME,JUST CAN'T DECIDE WHERE. AS FOR THE GUN IT IS GOING TO MY 13 YEAR OLD NEPHEW IT WAS HIS GRANDFATHERS, AND I WANT TO PASS IT ON WITHOUT IT EVER ENTERING THE GOV. FILES. SO I DONT WANT TO SHIP TO FFL.
  • mbrookmbrook Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I ship guns to myself or to my outfitter when going out west. Below is from the actual wording from the ATF website allowing someone to ship the gun to themselves or in care of another person. I have also posted the link for the quote.


    B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]


    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm


    http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm


    "When one responsibly procures his family's dinner by hand, each meal becomes a sacred rite. It is good, and so is the feast!" --Ted Nugent



    Edited by - mbrook on 06/24/2002 15:22:53
  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    Although federal law allows you to ship firearms to another state for hunting or other legal activity, you will not be able to find a carrier (UPS/FedEx/etc) who will ship guns unless the sender or recipient is an FFL licensee. You will need to get an FFL dealer to recieve it for you in the destination state.

    If you are moving from CA to AK federal law allows you to move your firearms along with your other belongings so long as all laws of both states are obeyed and the item is legal in both states. You could simply pack the firearms (unloaded of course) in the moving van. You have to notify the moving company that you will be transporting firearms. Note: since a truck would be driving through Canada there are likely complications regarding the border crossing. You will need to check these out before attempting this.

    If you are flying you can pack your firearms (unloaded and separate from their ammo in a hard case) and check them in your checked baggage. You have to check them at the baggage check counter and tell the attendant that the bag contains a firearm.

    I do not know what the legality would be of taking the items on a boat or driving through Canada.
  • Wild BillWild Bill Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What if you just didn't tell them what was in the box you were shipping? I've shipped a rifle before, and the post office never asked me what was in the box. I wouldn't have lied if they had asked me, but the fact is they never did. Didn't have any problems shipping it.

    "Gun control is not about guns; it's about control." "If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson."
  • lazywallruslazywallrus Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fed-ex will allow you to ship the firearm to yourself, you have to sign for it at the place of delivery. The gun does have to be field stripped and no ammo can be sent with it. I did that last fall rather than going anywhere an airport with a gun after sept 11. Just make sure you insure it.
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Corren, You are missing the main problem you have. That is getting by the federal law that prohibits an unlicensed individual from transferring a gun to another unlicensed individual when they are not residents of the same state. As I understand the law, the only way a gun can go from and unlicensed individual in one state directly to an unlicensed individual in another state is by inheritance. It will be better to go through an ffl than to risk going through the doors of a federal pen. I am no attorney and this advice is worth what is costing. However, a person who has advertised that he is considering committing a federal felony should check with a lawyer before proceeding with the project.
  • ameriskinameriskin Member Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    stick it in a plain box and send it away. i mail my handguns to alaska when i drive up there, because of the whole canadian ban thingy. but i just lock em up, toss em in a box and ups them to my uncle's house. never had a problem, and know one has ever questioned it. cody
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sir Saxon this is (I think) what Hershal, and I, am concerned with: "AS FOR THE GUN IT IS GOING TO MY 13 YEAR OLD NEPHEW IT WAS HIS GRANDFATHERS"
    I see 2 potential problems (from a legal point of view, not a personal one)
    1 is the out of state transfer of ownership.
    2 is transfering ownership to someone that is only 13

    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    SaxonPig: it is definitely illegal to fail to inform UPS/FedEx/etc that the package contains a firearm. Please, folks, don't ever try this lest you lose your firearm and end up facing criminal charges.
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxon Pig, Tailgunner1954 picked up on exactly what my concern is.
    No matter how the gun gets to Alaska, the donor is not going to be able to legally transfer it to his nephew.
  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    It is quite legal to ship firearms to yourself in another state for sporting purposes. Tell the PostMaster in your hometown PO to show you where it is not legal. The PO is not allowed to have anything on the outside of the parcel that indicates it is a firearm. If your Postmaster will not let you ship it to yourself, tell him you would like to speak with his division supervisor. Don't let some lower level management government official tell what is or isn't in the law, make them show you. He will have a Postal Manual nearby. I have probably shipped more firearms to and from Alaska then 99.99% of the people posting on this forum.

    AlleninAlaska aglore@gci.net

    Free men are not equal and equal men are not free
  • CORRENCORREN Member Posts: 466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First off it's "her" nephew not his. Thank you Saxonpig for all of the information and help. and thank you everyone else for the advice. As for committing a federal offense, it's impossible to transfer a rifle to a 13 year old. But I believe in the old saying "Take a child hunting and you won't be hunting for your child"

    CORREN
  • ineedabrowninggoldineedabrowninggold Member Posts: 33 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice quote Corren.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can forestall the problem of some doofus writing "gun" on your package by describing it yourself first. Break the gun down to the degree possible, and describe it on the paperwork as "machined parts." This is not to say any laws should be broken, but there is no reason to needlessly identify the contents, when it is not required by law, as a firearm just because some shipper doesn't know his job.

    It is irritating how dumb some shippers are willing to remain about firearms because they personally don't approve of them.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have driven with guns across country, by the way, but in order to avoid the possibility of awkwardness I simply buried them at the bottom of the pile, in such a way that the gun was still reachable and quickly retreivable if necessary, but entirely out of view. I would prefer to transport my guns myself than send them, but one does have to worry about state lines. The NRA does have a pamphlet on interstate transportation, by the way.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    If you are shipping to a nonlicensee (i.e., yourself) you must declare that the package contains a firearm. If you are shipping to an FFL holder, there is no legal requirement to declare the firearm.
  • CAndres35CAndres35 Member Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what is wrong with shipping in 2 or more pieces[both piece inoperable] it not a firearm if it cant be fired is it? i have always shipped them with the bolt removed or if breakdown the barrel in one package and the reciever stock in another. i hpe someone will answer this as i was under the impression this was completly legal. also what do you mean by transfering to a minor? are you saying that if you give a weapon to a minor or for that matter anyone that you have to register it with????? i have never had to register a weapon with anyone but the police dept. that i worked for in my life and in fact thought it was against the law for the govt. to keep a list[registration] of people who own weapons? lets hear from you. CARL
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    Liktoshoot,

    The regulation you quoted is correct (except that it is 178.31). It states that notification is only required when shipping to OTHER THAN a licensee.

    I have two letters from BATF HQ stating that this means that notification is only required when shipping to a nonlicensee.

    Edited by - EOD Guy on 06/25/2002 17:03:41

    Edited by - EOD Guy on 06/25/2002 17:06:17
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    Ammunition shipments come under Department of Transportation regulations (49CFR). There are specific packaging and marking requirements in that regulation.

    If you will look at the paragraph you quoted, it is obvious (to me at least) that the "No person shall" applies to shipments to other than the indicated licensees. That is what the people that wrote the regulation at BATF say it means.

    I am not advocating not notifying shippers for the simple reason that it would make it very difficult to pursue an insurance claim if it became necessary.
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    As far as BATF is concerned the notification requirements are the same for both ammunition and firearms. However, shipment of ammunition comes under the jurisdiction of the Department of Transportation. Their regulations apply. 49CFR has specific marking, labeling, packaging, and shipping paper requirements.
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    Ammunition is always considered a hazardous material regardless of the mode of transportation. It is regulated by all modes, including air and highway. I've been working with DOT regulations for over 30 years and I know what I'm talking about.

    It really doesn't matter what BATF says, the Department of Transportation is the regulating authority under the law.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    CAndres35: quote:that i worked for in my life and in fact thought it was against the law for the govt. to keep a list[registration] of people who own weapons?
    Boy are you going to be surprised that DOJ has computer records of every firearm transaction. And the information (list?) can be accessed by any local law enforcement agency.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • BoyWonderBoyWonder Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Back to the original question. If the transfer is really inheritance, (i.e. written into a will) it is legal to transfer it without an FFL. And there is not a federal law against minors owning long guns, they just can't buy them...right?

    Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master. -Demosthenes
  • CORRENCORREN Member Posts: 466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The gun was not willed to him,it left the family through a spilt up.I bought the gun a year later in a private transaction the gun was originally bought before the waiting period was instated. It is my understanding that long gun registration was optional,i know this gun never was. I am giving it back to who it rightfully belongs to,this is a family deal. If at some time he chooses to register it that is his choice. I am not traveling to Alaska any time soon,I just want to send him his gun.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What we have here is, failure to elucidate...

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    Corren,

    Since this will be an interstate transfer and is not a bequest from an estate, it must be conducted through a dealer in the recipient's home state.

    Rich
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I refuse to allow my personal rights to be trampled by these fools.

    Break down the gun as small as you can, make sure it is entirely clean, and stamp the box "Fragile: Machined Metal Parts".

    The last time I did this, I actually conferred with the branch manager of my local FedEx. He confirmed that if I broke it down completely, stamped the box "Machined Metal Parts", and wrote the same on the manifest, I would be in the clear.

    No one is going to bother your package if you stamp it like that.

    However, if you go in there, hang your head, and act like you're some sort of an evil criminal for wanting to get your gun from here to there, some idiot postal clerk will stamp it "DANGER!! ASSAULT WEAPON!! DANGER!!" then you WILL have a problem.

    This is, of course, assuming they dont call the FBI on the spot or have a grabber from the sight of one of those * gun owners. Like Billy the Kid just walked in or something.

    Do make sure it is well cleaned, though. If it is dirty and stinks of gunpowder, a K9 might pick up on it.
  • gunner@nwinet.comgunner@nwinet.com Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No matter how many pieces you break a weapon down to, one them is going to be the receiver and must be shipped as a fire arm. Who would ship a valuable weapon on via any carrier without insuring it?

    Gunner
  • CAndres35CAndres35 Member Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i am sorry for being so ignorant but: someone needs to define reciever to me! how can a barrel without a bolt be a reciever? how can a wooden or synthetic stock be a reciever? also how can either be classified as a fire arm when there is no means to discharge a 'BULLET" OR AMUNITION.? TO ME ALL YOU HAVE AT THIS POINT IS MACHINED METAL OR WOOD. IF I ORDER A BARREL FOR MY GUN DOES IT HAVE TO BE SENT TO AN FFL? IF I ORDER WHAT I THINK YOU ARE REFERING TO AS A RECIEVER FOR MY SHOTGUN THAT DOESNT CONTAIN THE firing mechanisim does it have to be sent to an ffl/ if i order a new bolt for my gun? etc.? please clarify. i dont get this picture. CARL
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i am sorry for being so ignorant but: someone needs to define reciever to me!

    Receiver (aka Frame): Normaly considered the to be the one part that has (or normaly has) the serial # stamped on it. That part onto/into which all the other pieces mount/fit.

    A bolt fits into the receiver, the barrel is mounted onto the receiver, the stock is bolted to the receiver, the slide rides on the frame.


    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
  • BoyWonderBoyWonder Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I shipped a long gun out of California (legally, to an FFL holder) via UPS. On the manifest I wrote "rifle" for contents, and the value I wanted it insured for, and they shipped it. No questions asked. I had the FFL and all paperwork ready just in case, but they never said a thing...

    Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master. -Demosthenes
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