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Air marshal, muggers trade fire on S.F. street

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
Air marshal, muggers trade fire on S.F. street

Chronicle Staff Report Friday, September 27, 2002



An off-duty federal air marshal exchanged gunfire with two would-be muggers in San Francisco on Thursday night, a San Francisco police spokesman said.

The shooting began after the marshal saw two men trying to rob a couple at gunpoint on the 1100 block of Columbus Avenue at 9:45 p.m., police said. Police said the marshal, whose name was withheld, confronted the assailants, who then fired at him. The marshal fired back, police said.

No one was hit by the gunfire, and police set up a perimeter and were searching for the two men.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/09/27/BA14388.DTL


"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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    Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does it bother anyone else that the anti gunners' answer to not arming pilots (air marshals) can't even hit their target out on the street in a shootout?

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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    pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
    thats the first thing I noticed when i read your article Josey. These guys are supposed to nail a head shot from across the inside of a plane with innocent bystanders all around...but he can't hit a mugger a few yards away.

    very disturbing if you ask me.
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    dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, i totally agree , that marshel will be a liability in a confined space. and that is governments answer to air piracy and terrorism. make you want to go buy a bus ticket. arming the passengers can't be any worse. respt submitted dads-freehold

    if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
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    Old hickoryOld hickory Member Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let's give the marshal the benefit of the doubt. At least he got involved. Maybe the distance was farther than we would expect, like 30 yards? Maybe he wasn't sure it was a real mugging, and he didn't want to blast away at somebody goofing around. What are rules of engagement when your not in your assigned area on a plane or in the port? Still, if he was trying to hit them it's not reassuring. We've all misssed easy shots, and they probably wern't armed, at least the deer around here aren't.
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    RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think we may be missing the real point to this issue..... It is my opinion that the folks being "mugged" might have been able to handle the situation themselves if they hadn't been in Kalifornication and if they were "packing" themselves.....but in Kalifornication,......well, I would say they were just "plain damned lucky" that anyone with a gun was there to help.......after all, only a "select" few can have a concealed carry permit. Ooops, the air marshall probably didn't have a Kalifornication Carry Permit and that is why he missed! Couldn't stand the possibility of actually hitting someone....bad enough to just discharge a firearm in Kalifornication. Can you imagine the trouble had he hit a "Mugger?" Bad enough not to have a Carry Permit!





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    DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ranchero: You may not be that far off. RE: CCW, I'm surprised that being an air marshal would make any difference in San Francisco.

    Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
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    JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We also need to consider the fact that if that was his first "deadly encounter" his adrenaline level was probably at cardiac bursting levels. Paper targets and fake building entry exercises on dummys that don't shoot back can't prepare you for that. I agree, at least he drew a bead and fired at the badguys, lots of folks these days would turn the other cheek, in fear of getting involved.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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    thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This may sound terrible, but I don't agree with carrying guns on planes. I've watched several real, point blank gun battles (video clips) and they all had one thing in common. No amount of training was able to prepare them for that encounter. They ALWAYS end up in a brute force spray and pray. Combine this with a small cabin space full of passengers and you've got a recipe for disaster. I think we'd do better to allow ALL passengers to carry small concealable weaponry such as batons, tasers, knives, brass knuckles, etc. A gun is just the wrong tool for the job.

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    mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I disagree monkey. Give anybody who cam have a CCW on the street the right to carry on planes and you won't have any serious problems. I am going by the same philosophy as I use everyday, A bad guy isn't going to screw with an armed society, unless they are just stupid and in that case let the closest person unload on him. If there were armed citizens on the planes they would have never reached their target, not saying people wouldn't have gotten killed, but 3000 people surely wouldn't have, and what would you rather sacrifice 100 people or 3000+100 on the plane? Thats a nobrainer!
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    thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    mkirkland,
    I'm completely for arming the passengers, but can you imagine the media circus if a CCW holder stopped a hijacker yet killed child by accident? If taking out the terrorist was the sole priority, why not simply bring a fully automatic Mp5 and hose down the cabin? If someone dies it needs to be at the hands of the terrorists. Friendly fire is not an acceptable option. For every job there is a perfect tool, and in this case I don't think it's a handgun.


    The itsy, bitsy spider crawled up the water...
    BLAM BLAM BLAM!
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    thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680 ✭
    edited November -1
    It strikes me kind of funny how a lot of people(not neccessarily on this board, are missing something.There is no perfect solution to any of our social ills.If you fly there is a certain amount of risk involved.The plane could be hi-jacked, and either you will survive, or you will not.If the the plain is hi-jacked, and there is a shoot out, either you will survive, or you will not.The basic argument should be,"Do you want a stake in your own survival, or are you willing to trust your life to decisions made by others?"

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