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US Muslims issue fatwa AGAINST terro
nemesisenforcer
Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
If this is sincere it is definitely an encouraging sign. My question is this: is it sincere or a sop to keep everyone off their backs?
U.S. Muslims issue anti-terrorism "fatwa"
28 Jul 2005 17:03:22 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Romney Willson
WASHINGTON, July 28 (Reuters) - Top U.S. Muslim scholars issued a "fatwa," or religious edict, against terrorism on Thursday and called on Muslims to help authorities fight the scourge of militant violence.
The fatwa was part of efforts by U.S. Muslims to counter perceived links between Islam and terrorism and avert any negative backlash after this month's bombings by suspected Islamic extremists in London and Egypt.
"Having our religious scholars side by side with our community leaders leaves no room for anybody to suggest that Islam and Muslims condone or support any forms or acts of terrorism," said Esam Omeish, president of the Muslim American Society, one of the groups which announced the fatwa.
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesperson for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said it was the first time Muslims in North America had issued an anti-terrorism edict, although they had repeatedly condemned such acts of violence.
American Muslims this month launched a nationwide advertising campaign in which they declared that those who committed terrorism in the name of Islam were betraying the teachings of the Koran.
Muslim organizations say they have not so far detected any widespread reaction against their community after the most recent bombings.
Hooper said Thursday's religious ruling, issued by the Fiqh Council of North America, said: "We clearly and strongly state (that) all acts of terrorism targeting civilians are 'haram' (forbidden) in Islam."
"It is 'haram' for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence, and it is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians," he quoted the ruling as saying.
The Fiqh Council is an association of Islamic legal scholars that interprets Islamic religious law. Hooper said it was the only one of its kind in North America.
Some 130 North American Muslim organizations and leaders have signed and endorsed the fatwa.
Similar anti-terrorism fatwas have been issued by other Muslim communities. After the bombings in London religious leaders from about 500 British mosques issued such an edict and presented it to local politicians.
According to Islam, only responsible, religious authorities which are recognized by a Muslim community may issue fatwas. Many Muslims say extremists such as Osama bin Laden have given these edicts a bad name in the West because they have used them without authorization and to call for acts such as murder.
Because Islam is not based on a world-wide hierarchical structure, the edicts are not globally binding, and only affect the community whose religious leaders have issued the rulings.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
U.S. Muslims issue anti-terrorism "fatwa"
28 Jul 2005 17:03:22 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Romney Willson
WASHINGTON, July 28 (Reuters) - Top U.S. Muslim scholars issued a "fatwa," or religious edict, against terrorism on Thursday and called on Muslims to help authorities fight the scourge of militant violence.
The fatwa was part of efforts by U.S. Muslims to counter perceived links between Islam and terrorism and avert any negative backlash after this month's bombings by suspected Islamic extremists in London and Egypt.
"Having our religious scholars side by side with our community leaders leaves no room for anybody to suggest that Islam and Muslims condone or support any forms or acts of terrorism," said Esam Omeish, president of the Muslim American Society, one of the groups which announced the fatwa.
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesperson for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said it was the first time Muslims in North America had issued an anti-terrorism edict, although they had repeatedly condemned such acts of violence.
American Muslims this month launched a nationwide advertising campaign in which they declared that those who committed terrorism in the name of Islam were betraying the teachings of the Koran.
Muslim organizations say they have not so far detected any widespread reaction against their community after the most recent bombings.
Hooper said Thursday's religious ruling, issued by the Fiqh Council of North America, said: "We clearly and strongly state (that) all acts of terrorism targeting civilians are 'haram' (forbidden) in Islam."
"It is 'haram' for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence, and it is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians," he quoted the ruling as saying.
The Fiqh Council is an association of Islamic legal scholars that interprets Islamic religious law. Hooper said it was the only one of its kind in North America.
Some 130 North American Muslim organizations and leaders have signed and endorsed the fatwa.
Similar anti-terrorism fatwas have been issued by other Muslim communities. After the bombings in London religious leaders from about 500 British mosques issued such an edict and presented it to local politicians.
According to Islam, only responsible, religious authorities which are recognized by a Muslim community may issue fatwas. Many Muslims say extremists such as Osama bin Laden have given these edicts a bad name in the West because they have used them without authorization and to call for acts such as murder.
Because Islam is not based on a world-wide hierarchical structure, the edicts are not globally binding, and only affect the community whose religious leaders have issued the rulings.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
Comments
With all the complaints folks have about the Pope and the Catholic religion, at least the leadership of the catholic church has some kind of control over its flock. When the pope issues a papal edict it is passed down through cardinals and bishops who monitor the individual parish priests.
Yes, there is church authority but it is ultimately derived from the membership. I was raised in the Christian Reformed Church (but they swung way left and act like the Bible is a "living document") so my parents are now members of the Presbyterian Church of America.
Catholics dont do everything the Pope tells them. I know I dont follow the rules I don't beleive in. But at least there is some structure that can be held accountable. At least we'd no where to go looking for the culprits if the Catholics declared a jihad.
I don't think the fatwas from moderate clerics will work. I think the radical Muslims will start killing the moderate muslims next.
You sound like the kind of guy I could talk "church" with. I dig religious conversation.
At least they have come out on the record and formally censured Islamist terrorism.
Read these passages from the Quran and decide for yourself.
SURA 9:29-30 "Declare war upon those to whom the Scriptures were revealed (Christians and Jews) but believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, and who do not forbid that which Allah and his Apostle have forbidden, and who refuse to aknowledge the true religion (Islam) until they pay the poll tax without reservation and are totally subjugated."
SURA 9:5-6 "Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you may find them."
SURA 4:76 "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah."
SURA 47:4 "When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."
SURA 8:12 "I will instill terror into the hearts of the infidels, strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every fingertip."
SURA 4:74 "Let those who fight in the cause of Allah, who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on Allahs path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward."
Knowing that ALL Muslim clerics have read these parts of the Quran, do you really believe that they are sincere about this Fatwa? Buy a Quran yourself and read these chapters and then compare them to what you have read and heard from these Islamic leaders. Compare them to what nemesisenforcer posted above. How seriously can you possibly take these people? Islam is nothing more than a Cult Religion mixed with a Military Theocracy.
volenti non fit injuria
skydiver386: quote: Buy a Quran yourself and read these chapters and then compare them to what you have read and heard from these Islamic leaders. Just make sure you read it in Arabic and not a translation. Once you do, then please make your post. Thank you.
volenti non fit injuria
Perhaps you could translate Akbar.[;)]
If your beliefs are based in ignorance, LOGIC is the first casuality...
Just a little news flash for you. I DO speak, read and write Arabic! I just completed 21 years of active duty in the U.S. Army and a good portion of that time was well spent in language schools. No, I'm not talking about 3 day head start classes, I'm talking about 6 to 9 months 8 hours a day. I also speak, read and write fluent Thai.
I have read the Quran in Arabic and 2 English translations, so I KNOW for a fact that there is no discernable difference between them. To tell the real truth, there is no such thing as the Quran and there never has been.
After Mohammed's death in AD632, there was no collection of his revelations. Many of his followers tried to gather all the known revelations and write them down in codex form. Soon there were codices from several scholars such as Ibn Mas'ud, Ubai b Kab, Ali', Abu Bakr, al-Ash'ari, al-Aswad and dozens of others. As Islam spread, the Metropolitan Codices in the centers of Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, and Basra appeared. In all, there are no less than 14 versions of the Quran generally accepted by Islamic scholars. These include:
1. Nafi of Medina (d. A.D.785)
2. Ibn Kathir of Mecca (d. A.D.737)
3. Ibn Amir of Damascus (d. A.D. 736)
4. Abu Amr of Basra (d. A.D. 770)
5. Asim of Kufa (d. A.D. 744)
6. Hamza of Kufa (d. A.D. 772)
7. Al-Kasai of Kufa (d. A.D. 804)
Add to this the fact that over 300 words in the Quran must be considered foreign: words from Aramaic, Hebrew, Syriac, Etheopic, Persian, and Greek. The word Quran itself comes from the Syriac, and Mohammed obviously got it from Christian sources that migrated into Arabia. There is nothing pure about the Arabic used in the Quran because it is actually composed of so many other languages. To claim that one cannot understand the Quran without knowing Arabic is pure HOGWASH. Ooops, hope I did'nt offend you with the hog thing.[:D]
After reading the Quran several times, I know full well what kind of a man Mohammed really was and what Jihad is really all about. I also have a very good idea of how badly Muslims lie to those they consider to be infidels or dhimmi's or whatever title they want to use. A lie to another Muslim is considered a sin, a lie to an infidel is considered to be a legitimate tactic, and that brings us back to the "Fatwa" and my original argument. Feel free to point out anything in my prior post that is factually incorrect. I can hardly wait to hear how Sura 47.4 REALLY means that Muslims should have a bake sale and give the proceeds to the Boy Scouts.[}:)]
BTW, THANKS, SKYDIVER386 for your SOUND, EXPERIENCED, and KNOWLEDGEABLE INPUT with regard to that "peaceful" religion of Islam.
Some people need a good dose of the FACTS to shut their mouths...of course, I'm sure the results will be temporary, at best. [V]
quote: Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a
fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.
i just got this in a email and was kinda curious,..is it the real deal or B.S?
skydiver,..is this really in the book anywhere?
quote: Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a
fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.
i just got this in a email and was kinda curious,..is it the real deal or B.S?
www.snopes.com
Sura 9:11 Should give you a clue that it's a joke.
"Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small group of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To libeate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him."
-E. Renan
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Sir Winston Churchill
HAIRY,
Just a little news flash for you. I DO speak, read and write Arabic! I just completed 21 years of active duty in the U.S. Army and a good portion of that time was well spent in language schools. No, I'm not talking about 3 day head start classes, I'm talking about 6 to 9 months 8 hours a day. I also speak, read and write fluent Thai.
I have read the Quran in Arabic and 2 English translations, so I KNOW for a fact that there is no discernable difference between them. To tell the real truth, there is no such thing as the Quran and there never has been.
After Mohammed's death in AD632, there was no collection of his revelations. Many of his followers tried to gather all the known revelations and write them down in codex form. Soon there were codices from several scholars such as Ibn Mas'ud, Ubai b Kab, Ali', Abu Bakr, al-Ash'ari, al-Aswad and dozens of others. As Islam spread, the Metropolitan Codices in the centers of Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, and Basra appeared. In all, there are no less than 14 versions of the Quran generally accepted by Islamic scholars. These include:
1. Nafi of Medina (d. A.D.785)
2. Ibn Kathir of Mecca (d. A.D.737)
3. Ibn Amir of Damascus (d. A.D. 736)
4. Abu Amr of Basra (d. A.D. 770)
5. Asim of Kufa (d. A.D. 744)
6. Hamza of Kufa (d. A.D. 772)
7. Al-Kasai of Kufa (d. A.D. 804)
Add to this the fact that over 300 words in the Quran must be considered foreign: words from Aramaic, Hebrew, Syriac, Etheopic, Persian, and Greek. The word Quran itself comes from the Syriac, and Mohammed obviously got it from Christian sources that migrated into Arabia. There is nothing pure about the Arabic used in the Quran because it is actually composed of so many other languages. To claim that one cannot understand the Quran without knowing Arabic is pure HOGWASH. Ooops, hope I did'nt offend you with the hog thing.[:D]
After reading the Quran several times, I know full well what kind of a man Mohammed really was and what Jihad is really all about. I also have a very good idea of how badly Muslims lie to those they consider to be infidels or dhimmi's or whatever title they want to use. A lie to another Muslim is considered a sin, a lie to an infidel is considered to be a legitimate tactic, and that brings us back to the "Fatwa" and my original argument. Feel free to point out anything in my prior post that is factually incorrect. I can hardly wait to hear how Sura 47.4 REALLY means that Muslims should have a bake sale and give the proceeds to the Boy Scouts.[}:)]
OWNED!
some truths for once. Keep up the good work.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
Lincoln had it right: "When I do good I feel good and when I do bad I feel bad. That is my religion." Not sure where I read that the other day but it should become the only tenent of every religion. It would cut down on the infighting and free up tons of paper and trees.
But what is "good"? If "good" makes you "feel good" and you base what is "good" by how whatever it is makes you "feel" then you are basically judging "good" from "bad" by a chemical reaction occuring in your brain. I'd say a pagan interpretation would be far better if you are going to replace all religions with one simple phrase or Commandment. Do what you will so long as you harm none (or something to that effect). Some people "feel good" after committing some of the most heinous acts.
Get rid of all of them.
skydiver386: quote: Buy a Quran yourself and read these chapters and then compare them to what you have read and heard from these Islamic leaders. Just make sure you read it in Arabic and not a translation. Once you do, then please make your post. Thank you.
volenti non fit injuria
Apart from the thesis of this post being utterly idiotic (that you have to read it in the original to get the point), I've been told (by native Arabic speakers) that the original Arabic of the Koran is terrible. . .bad grammar, redundant sentence structures, etc.
Its actually sort of an embarassment that the holy book of a major world religion is that inept.
______________________________________________________________
I respect the truth too much to bring it out on every occasion.
The biggest regret of my life is the number of temptations I've resisted successfully.
Even though this is the internet and people can claim authority for everything, I'll accept his comments and defer to his expertise.
volenti non fit injuria
The American Islamic Leaders' "Fatwa" is Bogus
Steven Emerson
The Investigative Project on Terrorism
Email: Stopterror@aol.com
This morning a group of American Islamic leaders held a press conference to announce a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against "terrorism and extremism." An organization called the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) issued the fatwa, and the Council on American - Islamic Relations (CAIR) organized the press conference, stating that several major U.S. Muslim groups endorsed the fatwa.
In fact, the fatwa is bogus. Nowhere does it condemn the Islamic extremism ideology that has spawned Islamic terrorism. It does not renounce nor even acknowledge the existence of an Islamic jihadist culture that has permeated mosques and young Muslims around the world. It does not renounce Jihad let alone admit that it has been used to justify Islamic terrorist acts. It does not condemn by name any Islamic group or leader. In short, it is a fake fatwa designed merely to deceive the American public into believing that these groups are moderate. In fact, officials of both organizations have been directly linked to and associated with Islamic terrorist groups and Islamic extremist organizations. One of them is an unindicted co-conspirator in a current terrorist case; another previous member was a financier to Al-Qaeda.
CAIR has been pushing for removal of the tax exemption and registration of AIPAC as a foreign State lobbyist and as such has stirred the wrath of the Zionists.
volenti non fit injuria
HEY HARRY SKYDIVER386 GAVE YOU A CIRCUMCISION!!!