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Bronze Star?
ruger 10 22
Member Posts: 286 ✭✭✭
I was reading in the local paper about the bronze star. It seems that nowadays they just give one out to anyone. Some examples of this are a Sargent who electricuted himself, and over one hundred airmen who have never been in a combat situation. Over 19,000 bronze stars have been given out in Iraqi Freedom. In the Gulf War, which lasted a relatively short time over 27,000 bronze stars were given out. That is more than in the entire Korean War which was much longer, and had a lot more casualities.
I think that they give the bronze stars out way to much, or as the article put it "to good soldiers who are just doing their job." What do you guys think?
"The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practiced in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless - by disarming them."
I think that they give the bronze stars out way to much, or as the article put it "to good soldiers who are just doing their job." What do you guys think?
"The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practiced in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless - by disarming them."
Comments
Just like calling everyone of em a HERO, they are all not heros, respected for their job, but not heros.
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.
There are no bad guns, only bad people.
"The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practiced in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless - by disarming them."
Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO
Proud member of the NRA
When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion.
Abraham Lincoln
If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith.
Albert Einstein
"Cause I'm proud of you Pop , always have been. And I want my kids and grandkids to know what kind of stock they come from."
I don't know what they are giving medals for now in Iraq, but I do know that the real heroes will not be on t.v. or in the papers showing off their prize. The real heroes will put them deep in a drawer and quietly go on taking care of business.
Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
This is just a suggestion, you know your dad better than anyone. If he was my dad, I'd try to get him to tell me how what lapses in judgement he was talking about. He might not tell you. Most don't talk about it. But since you're his son, and he knows how you feel about him, he might just talk to you.
You might get one of those books that list MOH winners and a short statement about what they did. Find his name in it, learn some, then ask him.
Again, it's just a suggestion. Not trying to pry or anything.
"If they won't give us good terms, come back and we'll fight it out."
-- Gen. James Longstreet
Proud member of the NRA and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was
I don't think he ever got the MOH. I think the officers that saluted him were guys that knew him from other things and just didn't give a hoot about protocal.The Green Berets were a very small close knit group back in those days. My Dad was a very experienced special forces soldier by the early sixties. He was like a machine before his last couple years in Nam, but when they started sending regular army in something changed about him. He started to think it was his job to keep the "kids" alive. He'd tell us in tapes he'd send home that they were only a year or two older than my oldest brother and didn't know squat about soldiering. It bothered him a great deal to see these kids getting killed when he thought the special forces plan had been working. A few times when he and I were deep into a bottle of old grandad, he would tell me some stories and on his birthdays when all the guys would show up I would hear them remembering, but you are right in that he doesn't talk about anything he did much.
Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
My Uncle Joe was in Army Intel attached to the French, I believe, before the Korean War. I have just gotten snippets out of him on what went on, but one look to him, and you know something bigger than stories was going on...
BTW. There was a ceremony her on Fort Campbell, home of the 101st Airborne Division the other day, where they presented the ONLY Silver Star awarded to a Division soldier in all of the missions of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM over the past year.
While some awards mean little, it is imperative that you do the research and figure out under what conditions the soldier was awarded the medal; some chains-of-command will sign anything, others refuse to sign for fear of lessening the medals value.
Within the 5th Special Forces Group (5SFG), there has only been one Silver Star awarded to date as well. Some Bronze Stars are extremely well deserved, and others... well... that's for the awardees and the awarder to sort out when the time comes.
IMHO, you are only as important as you peers deem you to be. You figure out what that one means [}:)]
One last "small" point. I guess my point is that if you really want to know if a soldier "deserved" a meadal, any medal, ask them. It will become terribly evident in a matter of minutes what the soldier and his buddies think about the actions which merited the awarding of the medal.
Standard disclaimer: I am not responsible for this post. Please blame the Bud Light.
NSDQ!
"Many free countries have lost their liberty, and ours may lose hers; but if she shall, be it my proudest plume, not that I was the last to desert; but that I never deserted her." -President Abraham Lincoln
my older brother who was in the war .was up for a bronze star.his tank got hit and rolled by the bahgdad airport.he was thrown out of the tank.he rode on top because he was the company commanding officer.he then got up after being tossed out he got shrapnel all in his arms and head.he then pulled out his tank crew.1 crewman the loader lost his arm and my brother gave him 1st aid while the rest of the crew provided security.we'll my brother didnt get it instead he just got a purple heart for his wounds.when he got back he told me the story of what happened to him.i asked him if he was upset at all about not getting the bronze for what he did he replied "no i was just doing my job"
nightstalker,you might have heard of this when you were over there.
SEMPER FI
While some awards mean little, it is imperative that you do the research and figure out under what conditions the soldier was awarded the medal...
I doubt the numbers ruger 10 22 reported are accurate. If they were, you don't need to do no stinkin' research. Just do the math:
In Vietnam over a 15 year period, 1 in 1100 assigned personnel was awarded the bronze star.
In Operation Iraqi Freedom over an 11 month period, 1 in 9 assigned personnel was awarded the bronze star. Of the 19,000 awarded, less than 2000 went to combat MOS personnel, meaning 17,000+ went to support troops.
Conclusion: A bronze star received in Iraq but unattended by a CIB, CAR or Air Medal probably means little more than demonstrated competency in the face of limited Internet access and half-rations of Evian.
While I completely understand the intent of your post, I'd like to clarify my point. Therre are many an Infantryman (Officer and NCO) who served their entire time in OEF/OIF on a BN/BDE/DIV Staff, but were "awarded" a CIB after spending an evening, or lese out on patrol with a fire team. Not sure that meets the intent of the award, but, hey, what do I know?
Now, on to the Combat Support folks. While somethings remain constant, one thing I hve seen change over my limited time in the US Army (nearly 16 years) is the role of "certain" combat support troops. Their are "certain" special mission units out there who have soldiers who work in the shadows and will never be awarded a CIB/CAR/or Air Medal, yet some of these men have seem combat action which I'll offer in my limited experince far and again exceded that of many 11 and 18-series soldiers.
Not trying to call anyone out here, just wanting to emphasis my earlier point; ASK THE SOLDIER, and in your heart and sole, you'll know what the truth is.... but that is JMHO.
BTW, I noticed the word you italicized, and probably is a grat qualifier which explains your position on the issue, but I just wanted to clarify, and more importantly... vent.
NSDQ!
"Many free countries have lost their liberty, and ours may lose hers; but if she shall, be it my proudest plume, not that I was the last to desert; but that I never deserted her." -President Abraham Lincoln
Pop did speak of his experiences to some extent, but not as a braggart. He told of being with a gun crew that towed a 105 to a hilltop during The Bulge and fired a couple of rounds into a hotel where they knew German officers would be billeted. No great damage done, but they sent a message.
He also spoke of looking down from the window of the plane they were using for forward observation and seeing a carpet of tracers followed by a ME-109... Then almost crashing into the same plane as they both hugged the ground over the Black Forest.
I never got the impression that he or anyone else thought the experiences were anything out of the ordinary, but his death changed all that. I've always been aware that he kept in touch with many fellow officers and enlisted men. I've known since I was a child that he had German and French friends whom he met during the war. I guess I should have suspected, but I didn't.
I now have letters from people who met my father nearly 60 years ago expressing condolences for the passing of a brave and decent man. I knew the decent man and I guess I knew the brave one, too. I just wasn't aware that so many others knew about my quiet unassuming father.
I'll honor my father and bury the medals with him when his ashes are returned to me. He'd be so proud if he knew... And I hope, somehow, that he does.
Nord
ruger 10 22: As sure as Christmas was stolen by the Grinch, we had Chesty Puller, you have Jessica Lynch.
At least her purple heart was legitimate. I won't vouch for the other awards.
Hero's? Ordinary guys? Definitions we use to describe those who have been tested. Of themselves, people just trying to survive.
"the difference between the almost right word and the right word is like the difference between a lightning bug and a lightning bolt" - Mark Twain.
...the system will just remain flawed, with the most notable flaw being that most grunts will NOT get what they deserve, and most staff guys and gals getting MORE than they deserve, IMHO.
I think this is exactly the point. And even those grunts who do get what they deserve have their efforts diluted by those likewise rewarded for performing hum drum quotidian support functions. If 1 in 9 soldiers receive a bronze star, both the meaning of the award and the regard historically given its recipients is diminished, even for those few worthy individuals whose sacrifice by volition and service above the call was clearly demonstrated.
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet."