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Should one profit from their military service?

RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
I remember watching the movie "Sargeant York" where Congressional Medal of Honor recipient Alvin York was offered fabulous money making opportunities for the use of his name and endorsements. His comment was that a lot of men didn't come back and to honor their memory he declined the offers. Now I see where Springfield Armory is offering the Carlos Hathcock M1. Perhaps some royality will go to his family, but someone is no doubt going to profit from this man's military service to his country....what are you thoughts?



http://www.springfieldarmory.com/whatsnew.shtml


Carlos Hathcock Signature Model M25 Now Available From Springfield Armory

(Geneseo, IL)- Springfield, Inc. is pleased to announce the availability of an all-new M1A rifle which is designed and built to honor the accomplishments of perhaps the greatest tactical rifleman of modern times, the late Carlos Hathcock.

The White Feather / Carlos Hathcock model M25 / M1A utilizes the Springfield Armory rear-lugged receiver, M-14 magazine and a Krieger carbon heavy match barrel with a 1:10 twist. Other features include the SA M25 adjustable match trigger and McMillan fiberglass stock.

No sniper was more effective than Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos N. Hathcock II. As a testament of his effectiveness, North Vietnam once put a bounty of $30,000 on his head. The Viet Cong referred to Hathcock as "Long Trang" (The White Feather), because he often wore one in his bush hat.

But when Hathcock died in February, 1999 at the age of 57, the enemy which ultimately claimed him was the slow, unrelenting progression of multiple sclerosis.

Hathcock remains a legend in the Marines and among modern tactical shooters. The Carlos Hathcock Award is presented annually to the Marine who does the most to promote marksmanship. In addition, the sniper range at Camp Lejeune, N.C. bears his name.

Late in his life, Hathcock was awarded a Silver Star for an incident that happened nearly 30 years earlier, when he pulled seven comrades from a burning armored personnel carrier that had struck a mine. That act of bravery left him badly injured and effectively ended his career as a rifleman.

In a special arrangement with the estate and family of Hathcock, each Springfield Armory White Feather / Carlos Hathcock M25 will bear the likeness of Hathcock's signature and the White Feather logo.

"This is a very special rifle to honor a Marine and a marksman who defined modern tactical sniping," said Springfield Armory Co-Chairman of the Board, Dennis Reese. "we at Springfield are very proud and humbled to help preserve the memory of a true American hero, Sgt. Carlos N. Hathcock."

Comments

  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This topic touches on certain sentiments that were raised when Ithaca brought back a clone of a previously-issued military shotgun. The newly-named shotgun was called "The Homeland Defense" model or something along those lines. It seemed that they were exploiting the 9/11 tragedy but so was everyone else so not much clamor was raised because of it. I have no problem with someone benefiting from their own personal military experience so long as they do so in such a manner that does not bring discredit upon the service or the nation in the process. How is this particular rifle any different than the Colt 1911 war commemoratives? Colt is obviously capitalizing on the service and the strife that veterans have endured throughout the history of our nation. To claim that they are doing so to serve some higher cause is laughable. We live in a relatively free market society and such a product would not be on the market if there was not a perceived demand for it. I would like to own this Carlos Hathcock model and would if I had the funds to purchase one. Carlos Hatcock was an outstanding Marine and his memory deserves to be honored. This is something of a slippery slope. Did you buy a flag decal to put on your vehicle after 9/11? Would companies that manufactured such decals have turned the profit that they did were it not for the 9/11 incidents? I think not. However, we can't expect private companies to manufacture such items that bear a name or an idea for free simply out of philanthropy. There is obviously a demand for this Carlos Hathcock model. Someone will fill the demand. Who better to do so than Springfield? Remember, Springfield has also played a large role in supplying servicemen with the tools they need to wage war and win. I see no conflict of interest here.
  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    I have no idea.
    God bless Gunny Hathcock! I remember that sad day when we found out we lost one of our heroes.


    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
    Will270win@nraonline.com
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    will270win-I second your views.

    I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to look him in the eye, shake his hand and express my personal thanks for all he had done. He ranks right up there at the top on my list of people I'm most proud of having met.

    He was the real deal.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    It seems a small Tribute to an exemplary Service man, who was willing to give all to save his comrades,

    I dont think this country does enough for the Military people, except cut their benifits, and figure ways to save money by screwing the VET.

    ASK ME, IM ONE



    I would rather see a person of this caliber receive monetary compensation for the use of his name, or the family of that person, rather than the Sport Stars that rakes in millions for the use of their name, and they havent done a damn thing as far as I am concerned

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see the point of the question, and I guess there could be instances where I wouldn't like profiteering a bit, but a military service hero is a certified real hero, and as long as the company that wants to use his name for an "endorsement" of a product makes a deal for the use of that valuable property and shares the proceeds, I think it's up to the man or the family where he draws the line.

    I agree that they are more deserving of some compensation than sports "heroes." But kids need role models of all kinds. Let this be one of them. We should take better care of our vets in more ways than this. As for Mr. York, the guy was practically a saint from what I know of him, and God bless him. Still, I don't think the guys who "didn't come home" would begrudge those who did the right to their notoriety for their heroism. Just my 2 cents.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any Military man or woman who is on active duty inthe US.Armed forces during times of peace or war,is a hero to me.God Bless


    Best!!

    Rugster
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I see nothing wrong with an individual or his family who has served his country making a profit as long as it is done tastefully. I would be against a company exploiting an individual or his family without their concent. People have been profiteering from their military expoits for centuries. A modern day example is Sen. John McCain, he used his pow status to get where he is and would not have been elected if not for his military service.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At the time I met Hathcock he was promoting products from White Feather Enterprises, out of either Va. or W. Va. Among other things, they were selling Hathcock autographed Win.70 rifles and leather slings.

    I saw nothing wrong with it and would have bought one of the rifles if I could've afforded it.
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nothing wrong with it, nothing at all. If there is that would be another double standard that p!!$$es me off. Anyone else can do it, why not Carlos' family?

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, let face it there is always someone exploiting our hero, look what the government did with ira hayes (they did nothing about the conditions of the puma tribe in arizona, yet it spawned more heros than ira). the treatment of alvin york and his battle with the irs is even more deplorible, if it had not been for patriots around america the government was going to kick him off his land for back taxes. i find nothing wrong with useing your experience to better your self, hell every officer i ever knew from swarzchoff (sic) down does it why not the grunts. i think we need to study the way we let the government treat the vets and active duty personel. (just heard another patr. song by montgomery-gentry, sounds like a good one , check it out "didn't i bleed"). respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
  • jocko007jocko007 Member Posts: 81 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Should one profit from their military service? What is the point of your military service? Is not to gain experience, to learn to cope with difficulties? To prepare you to become a better citizen. It's like saying that you should not benefit from your college education. A better question would be, should a criminal profit from his illegal activities?, ie. movies, books, interviews, etc.

    Cliff
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jocko - You beat me to it, my sentiments exactly. Any monies achieved by criminal activities should be had by the victims. Profit as a result of military service, or any other legal actions, is OK by me.
  • Warpig883Warpig883 Member Posts: 6,459
    edited November -1
    Well of course they should, I sure as heck am not going to take all the military stuff off my resume. As a matter of fact most of the soldiers that go into the military these days do it for the experience and the college money.

    moc.murofsmraerifeht.www

    mirror this
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Considering the paltry sums that military personnel are paid while on active duty I can see nothing wrong with patriotic people purchasing a product from which a small sum will be forwarded to a deserving hero or his family. Given the amount of endorsement money earned by cocaine snorting liberal actors and actresses, a legitimate American hero should, in fact, receive far more.
    On the comment about officers profiting from their service; I would point out that an O-6 commanding an aircraft carrier and 7,000 men with a $7 billion dollar value receives around $85,000 per year in annual income. What do you think a President or CEO of a commercial company with 7,000 employees and $7 billion dollars in assets would receive? Those officers voluntarily have taken a tremendous paycut over their actual value to serve their country. If they make more when they are retired it is because they are worth it. Oh and I don't have a problem with retired enlisted military personnel making big money either. I too actually like to see it. Beach
  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with BeachMaster73. Those who served made a lot of scarifices.
    If they can make some honest profit , well, good for them!
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm reminded of General Douglas MacArthurs famous speech to the West Point cadets....."Duty, Honor, Country"....nothing said about profit. While York may have had moral quams about selling the rights to his name, MacArthur didn't...he sold his services reportedly to the Phillipine Government for unknown million plus dollars in gold, in exchange for his assistance as an advisor. I don't see a problem with Hathcock endorsing a product, hope some unscrupulous person doesn't taint our military by doing it in the wrong way.

    I seem to recall Hathcock using a Winchester Model 70 or was it a Remington 700? Be nice if they came out with a replica of what he used.
  • LogansdaddyLogansdaddy Member Posts: 56 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    anybody should be able to profit from any of their experiences

    It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it...
  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    WHY NOT

    Actually, not to start a bladder battle but this question irritated the he77 out of me. I read it earlier and decided to calm down before I answered it (and believe it or not this is calmer). I cannot think of ANY other profession where this question would even be asked. Do you ask when an athlete cashes in on his fame and endorses Tampons or some other stupid product? Do you question it when some politician writes a book (other than the content)? Why the hel l would you question a famous military man's family (or the man himself) attempting to capitalize on that fame?

    We ask our service men to sacrifice a tremendous amount. During Gunny Hathcock's time in service he was paid LESS than minimum wage for his efforts while being asked to risk life and limb for his country. He was a mercenary, a professional Marine, paid (poorly) to do a job. If his family can find a way to make it pay, I say God bless them and good luck!!


    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beach, I hope some day to load a bullet, That will hit it's mark as well as you do.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • WyomingSwedeWyomingSwede Member Posts: 402 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Schwarztkopf & Powell make millions for speaking engagements that are basically "Hi..How are ya...Get a picture taken with me...wheres my check?"
    If Hathcocks family can make some money at it ... more power to them.
    Fact of the matter is very few vets have that opportunity. Look at Jesse Ventura, a tireless self promoter. He pushed his SEAL training into wrestling, then Hollywood, then Government. He has made his pile. It bothers me not at all to see him profit from it.
    Personally I favor Sgt. York's philosophy, but I am not a Medal of Honor winner and will never have to look that opportunity in the face. Things look a lot different when you have a family to support. swede

    WyomingSwede

    Edited by - WyomingSwede on 07/20/2002 09:29:53
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of the guys at "special operations" also had their alternate agendas,"Killing the enemy" and on the way "cleaning" a few banks,gold deposits and valuables .

    Definitely with an earn today a dollar and is worth 1 cent in ten years economy ,profesionals like us have our "alternate" retirements funds, My favorites are weapons,tools and technology,(they never devaluate).

    JD

    Good...? , Bad...? Who cares ? as long I am the one with the the gun.....
  • Rob GreeneRob Greene Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think the big question is this: Is Gunny Hathcock's family getting anything out of this? I have no problem with any endorsement from a living person. Even if they do it for money. That's America. That's why so many of our guys have given their lives, believe it or not. So someone could make a buck in any honest way that they want. If that's by endorsing a product, fine. Carlos Hathcock was a hell of a man. It would be sad if someone was making money off his name and his family wasn't benefiting from it. Lots of Corporations are scum and would make money off dead people without the surviving family's permission. That's the true shame.

    **It is your right to posess a firearm. In case of questions, please refer to ammendment 2, United States Constitution.**
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