How we treat newbies to the shooting sports

idsman75

I get real fed up with gun show vendors and gun shop owners that insist on using condescension when dealing with newbies. Is it just me or is this a growing epidemic. Yeah, let's just ensure that nobody new comes into the fold. This past weekend I went to a gunshow in Springfield, MO. I saw quite a few things that piqued my attention and I saw a few things that I wouldn't mind owning in the future. One gun in particular caught my eye because it was one of the first pistols I had ever shot. It was an HK P7M8. It's a very expensive 9mm pistol and a joy to shoot. I commented to robsguns that I would never pay the price that these guns command due to the fact that I could get something of equal quality/size/weight in .45 ACP. I don't stand there and talk smack about guns on a table right in front of the seller. My conversation was at a moderate volume but apparently there was a dealer that was listening closely. He proceded to give me a lecture on shot placement. I felt like saying "no kidding buddy" but I bit my tongue and continued walking. Why do these people automatically assume that they have more experience than anyone else and feel the need to prove it? I've always wanted a P7M8 but, like I said, I'd rather have something like a Kimber CDP in .45 ACP if I was going to fork out that much capital. I wasn't planning on buying a gun from him. In about 20 seconds I realized that I was planning NOT to buy one from him too.

lokdok1

idsman,
Maybe it was just him, and not all vendors, but you're right about the attitude conveyed to newbies. They should be welcomed with open arms, nothing turns me off more than a smartass knowitall.Don't go chasing away new members of the fellowship! I guess it's just an ego thing with some of these guys.
Bartman

Theguncounterkid

Ive been selling gun for a few years now, and let me tell you, some of the "newbies" get you so annoyed it makes you a bit punchy. example in point, i just got done having a conversation with a customer. He never owned a gun before, only shot a 30-30. Now hes looking for a elk round and asks my opinion (dangerous i know). I say there are many choices, some better than others. I mention the 300 win and he instantly knows the "223" is the only caliber for elk. Now in oregon its .24 or bigger for elk, but that doesnt stop his mouth. At this point its smile and nod time (being married DOES have good skill teaching!)and spend 10 minutes letting him spout facts which he know nothing about.Did you know the .223 shoots a 150gr bullet @ 4000fps? or my person favorite, "No used rifle is worth more than $200" (he was looking at a pre64 supergrade mod 70). I deal with this stuff every day. I do try my best to promote shooting sports, but DAMN there are some ignorant people out there i wouldn't shoot with if it ment shooting at Mrs.Reno(Mr? are we sure??). Anyway, strayed from my point, but i feel better.
Oh ya, crotchy gun show vendors..the reason there snappy is that they cant sell that $300 gun for $500.
-The worked up Kid

lokdok1

Kid'
You have to learn to distinguish between newbies and Alpha Hotels.

Bartman

n/a

I have run across a few like you mentioned myself....And I have also run across a lot of men that think because I am a woman I know nothing about guns....or how to load, fire, and clean them....Funny thing... those are usually the guys that pick a gun up and look straight down the barrel without checking to see if its loaded.. hmmmmmmmmmmm.. wonder who knows nothing?...

Some dealers are like the ones you mentioned, especially at gun shows... but at my first gun show this last weekend I spoke at length to 2 retired LEOs..We talked guns, rifles, shotguns, what they liked and didnt like.. and turned me onto the SeeCamp...Very helpful.. showed nothing but respect, and we talked for about 45 minutes...if only they were all like that..


Lil' Stinker's Opinion

Varmintmist

Ids, its not just sellers and or dealers, look to the ranks of SHOOTERS. Try to strike up a conversation with a bunch of Kreigoff and or Perazzi toting shotgunners while you are holding a Mossberg. Or go to a high power match without wearing 2000.00 worth of coat, glove, hat, glasses, mat, spotting scope, stand and a little cart to pull your s#$t in. There is NO dang reason in the world that is a excuse for this behavior. The only thing it serves to do is push people away. Armchair ballistics experts dont help us either. They buy the "magnum du juor" and of course anything else is scat.

Dealers are trying to make sales by pushing their product as the best. A lot push to hard, and dont have a clue. If you know better, then you can stay away from them.

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.

Edited by - Varmintmist on 08/22/2002 22:16:49

rameleni1

I can think of no better reason to ask questions here, and get the correct results. There are no stupid questions here. If you are new to the sport, read, post, and learn. One thing... be carefull of the can of "whoop as*" I had one promised for me. Do they sell those here on Gunbroker?

Rameleni1

DancesWithSheep

I think what you are describing is a phenomenon of human nature, and it certainly is not limited to shooting sports or sports in general. Snobbery, pretense and presumption can be found in any human endeavor where more than one person is involved.

Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.

Iconoclast

Ids, there are 'holes in every walk of life - and I'm sure you could think of a few wearing some shiney pieces of brass on their collars if you thought for a few seconds, right? For every arrogant male genital, there are many more good guys out there behind the tables. I can sympathize with guncounterkid - there are plenty of 'hole customers to get ya goin' also, the majority of whom are not newbies, just highly opinionated ignoramouses (sp?). I do my best to encourage new cartridge collectors - especially kids - and I think most of the time I don't come across as a know-it-all. My biggest difficulty is keeping a straight face when some dealer (or auction seller) equates age with value. After all that, the 'gentleman' you encountered is likely the guy who doesn't sell all that much to the common man because his nose is so far up in the air - or his head is so firmly wedged in a damp warm locale - he can't see potential customers. His loss, not ours. It is unfortunate that newbies may encounter him, but there's damn little we can do about it until we make being a 'hole a capital offense. And likely there are people who would like to put some of us at the head of the line for the lethal injections if it were!

idsman75

Iconoclast--My head started spinning when I tried to name all of the "brass" that you mentioned. Last year I paid a visit to the Sackett's Harbor Sportsmen's Club in Sackett's Harbor, NY with a few friends. I had never been to a sporting clays range before and they were having their league shoot. These guys were toting the best firearms and they were very good shots. My friends and I didn't have our Mossberg's with us but these fellows knew that we were the "Mossberg" type because we were soldiers. They treated us better than I have ever been treated by the "Parazzi" types. They let us tag along as they worked their way through the tables and it was a great deal of fun! My father came into the shooting sports within the last two years as a result of encouragement from me and one of his friends from church. His "friend" is a very wealthy individual who is a member at a very wealthy shooting club. He took my father, brother and me to go shooting trap at his club. Yeah, we got some looks from some of the other members because we weren't wearing $2000 worth of pretty stuff but we had a great time and were treated to lunch by our host afterwards. Now my brother is getting into guns too and dad takes mom to the range to shoot.

I live about 300 miles from my parents and dad really wanted a home defense pistol. I placed a bid here on GB for him and arranged all of the details of the purchase. I had dad go to the gun store that shipped my guns to me when I got stationed in Washington because he was treated well there back in 1997. Well, they gave him the runaround when he asked them if they would receive his gun for him. They said "yes" but they talked down to him the whole time so he walked out. They sell a lot of guns in Minneapolis--just not to my dad. He bought his Ruger Red Label from someone else.

offeror

I find something weird about a lot of "gun people." It's almost like a religion with them, that has a dogma and a set of rigid beliefs. These people are very hard to have a conversation with. They talk at you rather than to you. If only the gun dealers knew how many of us are judging them with the same disdain that they judge some of us, I think they'd be shocked speechless. The funny part is that I find the truly knowledgeable ones are usually not arrogant at all, once they know you can talk their language.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

timberbeast

I've found that if your talking to a know-it-all deaker at a gun show, if you look him square in the eyes, you'll get his attention and at least a grudging respect, even if you're not sure about a gun that is "new" to you. My biggest gripe is the guy who has 20-some handguns on the table, you ask to pick up and handle a Blackhawk and ask: "Would you take three hundred for this?", he says "Yep, sounds good!" You say "OK, I'll take it." and he says : "Well, I'm not really set up to do transfers."
Excuse me, sir. Then why are you there with a load of guns on your table? Why are there prices on them?? Did you come to the show to sell the guns or did you put price tags on them to show off your collection??? I tried once to buy a nickle-plate Colt Buntline .22 from a guy, and he "just wasn't set up" to sell it. I had a pile of money at the time, and I wanted it badly, so I offered him double what the tag said. I don't have the gun, and why was he there?
I don't go to shows anymore. I can find anything that I want for a better price at Bill's Sporting Goods right down the road. And I don't have to deal with arrogant SOB's in the meantime. Bill will throw in a good day's worth of plinking ammo. The shows have become "SHOWS!!!!!!". At least around here.

ccasey612

I have run into a few dealer like that. I usually just give them there chance to spew what ever they have to say and then say something on the same level of what he says. Dealers, deal with alot of folks who have no clue what they are doing and treat everyone that way. If you show them they you know what you are talking about the seem to treat you with more respect. Thats just how its been with me.

If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.

mudge

Mrs. Mudge and I were at a gun shop a couple of weeks ago when we overheard the "counter guy" extolling the virtues of a "smaller caliber" handgun to a lady that was there with a guy. "Oh, you don't want a .357 or larger caliber. That's too big for you."
Mrs. Mudge kinda' took offense at the "too big for you" remark and when the salesman walked away, she said to the lady, "I'm smaller than you are and I carry a .45 caliber Glock. It's NOT too big." The lady asked if she could see it. Mrs. Mudge took it out, unloaded it, and let the lady handle it. The lady agreed that it wasn't too big. We encouraged her to go to another shop in the area that has an indoor range and a rental program and shoot a few guns to see what "fit" her.
She didn't buy the "wimp gun".

Remember...there was a time when WE didn't know diddley about guns either. (I was about 3 at that time, but.......)

Mudge the educator

I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!

maggiethecat

I have come across more downright snotty dealers at shows than I can count. I am fortunate enough to be able to buy what iI want, when I want it. Many dealers at Dallas shows treat me with disdain when they see a young guy with the cash to get what he wants. They assume because I am young, that I am an idiot. I have been involved in shooting for 20 years, and I only talk what I know. The dealers that really p**s me off are the ones that dont want to teach. If I have a question , I ask it. If that particular person blows me off, I make sure to buy what i want where he can see that he lost a sale. A little respect and understanding would go a long way toward getting me as a customer.

For the first time a nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more effecient, and the world will follow our lead into the future.-A. Hitler

must have been a democrat

Nighthawk

Some people have to be an authority on every thing,and some try to convince theirselves of this.And some just dont have social skills,which to me is to hear more than to speak.


Best!!

Rugster


Toujours Pret