Yeah, sure, Russia is one of US's best friends

sundowner

There is an article over on CNN http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/08/17/russia.iraq/index.html that says Russia and Iraq are planning to sign a five-year, $40 billion economic cooperation agreement.

At the end of the article, it states that "As the agreement is finalized, there has been a flurry of activity between Russia and nations that U.S. President Bush has called the "axis of evil" -- Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

Last month, Moscow announced it was developing a 10-year cooperation agreement with Iran to built civilian nuclear reactors. This week, the Kremlin announced that Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il during the third week of August."

Hasn't the US been embracing Russia as an ally and new best-buddy? Do you think Russia is following the old adage of keeping friends close, and enemies even closer? Do you trust 'em any further than you can throw all of Siberia?

offeror

George W revealed his gullibility when he was singing Ted Kennedy's praises a few months ago. George believes he is a particularly good judge of character, but what he really is is more an optimist. It's nice to have an optimist in the White House, but there's no question he can be wrong about people's character, and I hope he's getting good objective advice from his team on that.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Bullzeye

I knew the moment Putin got elected we were in deep trouble.

He's ex-KGB. And you arent KGB unless you are a deep, intractable, militant believer in the Communist cause.

He keeps his cards close to his chest and doesnt make big statements. Not because he's the meek little bureaucrat people think he us, but because thats what they taught their agents to do in the KGB.

In any case, his ideologies were forged by years of Communism and KGB training and are very unlikely to go away. His recent fervent opposal to the US missile shield and his latest alliance with Iraq are just the very cusp of this man's anti-Western feelings.

We must be very careful not to turn our back on him.

Iconoclast

Bullz, I respect your opinion, but you've just posted a pretty simplistic view of an incredibly complex situation. Russia has been hanging on the cusp of chaos for years. There are old-line Reds, military hard-liners, nationalists of many varieties, eager capitalists, criminal associations that make the Mafia at its height look like a philanthropy, fierce supporters of Democracy, Socialists of every hue, a vast spectrum of moderates and even skinheads. They do not have either the physical or political infrastructure to match their resources. Even in name, they've had political freedom for slightly more than a decade. Their economy is remarkable for the fact it even functions.

Our nations have many common interests and many conflicting interests. Putin cannot keep power and be seen as a puppet of the US. If nothing else, he must take actions contrary to American interests simply to counter any suggestion of that. Or at the very least conduct foreign / economic policy in a manner seen to benefit Russia, regardless of the impact on American interests. I seem to remember US Presidents treating with various outlaw types, also. Pinochet in Chile, many African dictators, Baptista in Cuba, etc. I doubt like all hell our leaders felt any great affection for those people, but it was in our short / long term interests as perceived at the time. We were the key support of the fedayeen in Afghanistan, as you may recall . . . many of the same folks who brought us Osama and company.

Should we be wary of Putin and whomever else is / will be in power? Absolutely. Friends? Not yet. Enemies? Not really. Future friends & allies? Likely. But it will be decades, not years. Don't forget (the Russians haven't!!!) that the US & our allies once invaded Russia in an attempt to affect the course of their internal events; they have some historical gripes with us, also.



Edited by - Iconoclast on 08/17/2002 17:43:26

interstatepawnllc

Berrrrrrrrrry intearesssssssssting!!

leeblackman

huh?

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !

offeror

I agree that you can never afford to trust someone completely who has a KGB background. I also agree that the realities are as has been described. But the economy in Russia was never very good; the difference now is it's openly admitted. It is my guess that some of the old elite is keeping a stash of weapons well oiled and maintained, just in case. Regardless of the fact that the "mob" of Russians is poor and the economy is chaos. They are not a toothless old dragon, nor is sympathy for the old ways dead in Russia. There is bound to be a core somewhere that gets what it needs regardless of the sacrifice required to maintain it. A few old croneys are making sure of that.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

timberbeast

Okay, sore spot here. (see it?)
Trust Russia, then trust the devil. I still have relatives in labor camps over there, yep, they been there since the 1950's. Hary is 78 and in the Murmansk District Labor Camp. Juris is 67 and in Komi, Zhanis is in the Krasnojarsk Region Labor Camp, and Edgars, age unknown (late seventies or thereabouts) still works in the Magadan Gold Mines.
Don't play with this unless you know exactly what you're talkin' about. Very few people do. The old boy network is alive and well there, as it is here, and if anyone thinks that they don't have nukes aimed at us right now they are fools. They still want the world, through direct descendants of the founders of communism.
Putin is the great-grandson of Shustin, first Chief of the NKVD in Latvia.
Direct quote from my grandfather's notes. He was a Lieutenant in the Latvian Legion and was the last known surviving member of the "Order of the Bearslayer." who fought both at the Battle for the Bridges of Riga and fought in WW2 as a platoon leader.
"Interesting to remember. In the first, central comittee after revolution 1917, there were 6 Latvians, 3 Georgians (Grusins) 2 Armenians, 2 Germans, 1 Ukranian, 1 Czech, 1 Saraim and 41 Jews. In the leadership of the GPU (CHEKA), there were 8 Latvians, 2 Russians, 1 Armenian, 1 Pole, and 23 Jews. Fricis Dombrovskis (a grade-school dropout)was appointed Chief ot the SSR Supreme Court. He delighted in signing execution orders. First chairman of the KGB, Dzeshinsky, Pole, his first lieutenants Latvians Lacis (Latsis) and Petters. First Secretary of Justice, Latvian Peteris Stucka (Stushka). First Commander of Red Army after reorganisation Latvian Jukums Vacietis General..shot first commander of reorganised air force Colonel Alksnis, Latvian died through suicide in 1937 when KGB wanted to arest him. Jumped from 10 floor window first secretary (Commisar) of defense, Trotzky (Bernstein). Assistant to Secretary of State (Molotow), Rudzutaks (3 gr. elementary school education), finished his carreer, together with wife in gulag. Soviet-appointed Commisar of the Interior is Novik (Jew). Issak Bucinskis, criminal, was released by the communists to head the "People's Militia and worker guards". Four priests were arrested and shot in the forest, Jun 1941. Christian rites and crosses on graves now forbidden. Z. Skudra sentenced to 12 years hard labor for taking pictures of churches. Anatanas Gudonis, two other doctors, and a nurse have been shot by the communists in Panevizys, Lithuania on 26 June for having operated on an injured Lithuanian woman the soviets accused of being a "partisan"."
End of quote. Yeah, I trust these dudes, don't you? They're the same families. Different names. Yep, my cousin from Latvia is here in the U.S. right now, was great to see her. BUT she can only come here by herself, no other relatives allowed to travel along, in case she might not come back. (She's 23). If she brings back American currency it will be confiscated and she will face 10 years. Perastroika, baby!!! Don't be dumb, and don't let the weak extremists in the Mideast fool you. We still have one main enemy, and it IS Russia.

96harley

Be sober, be vigliant for your adversary the devil walketh about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

thesoundguy1

Frankly, the Red Chinese STILL make me nervous.

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Nighthawk

I have to agree about the Chinese,but Russia steel has an ego problem when it comes to the US.We proved during the war with Iraq.

Rugster


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