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Even if you are innocent

idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
I've never been advised of my rights before. As a matter of fact, I've always sat on the other side of THAT table. Now that the table is turned, as it were, I have a question that never crossed my mind. Even if you were innocent (with the knowledge that someone is trying to prove yoru guilt) would you invoke your 5th Ammendment Right or would you comply and render a statement?
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Comments

  • TorinoTorino Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    idsman, have you ever felt like a stepping stone? It would be my guess that your in for a ride you won't soon forget. From my experience with the judicial system you are going to find that just about anything that will help will not be allowed as evidence, most of the jury already has you guilty because you were charged and right, wrong or fair doesn't have much to do anything. Hopefully your pockets are deeper than mine were at the time, better scrap that last part I forgot they go after the money.

    I'm not an atty. but I don't think I would say anything until you get a damb good one.
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guilty or not, you have the right to a trial....that doesn't necessarily mean Justice. Before going to trial one should know the rules and how the game is played, then use these to your advantage. That's why the person able to hire a more experienced attorney (F.Lee Bailey, Johnny Cochran, Jerry Spence, Shapiro, Scheck, etc.) can run circles around their inexperienced counterpart and have a higher percentage of wins...."Your words can and will be used against you in a court of law"
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is tough to say without knowing your situation.
    Generally, if you do make a statement, make sure that you have your own recording device so as to eliminate any "interpretation" mistakes.
    Ask that any question you do not fully understand be explained. This is to eliminate any "do you still beat your wife" type questions.
    Generally if you are open and above board and are trueful you will incur fewer / less serious problems.
    However if the situation is real serious, say nothing and obtain a really good lawyer.

    If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    absolutley, positively, without a doubt, SHUT YOUR MOUTH UNTIL YOUR LAWYER IS PRESENT. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, if you know what I mean. Your lawyer being present is the best thing that could happen to you. Do not even acknowledge that your name is correct on a document. Only say, I will not answer any questions until my lawyer is present. If you let them get under your skin, you are only going to give them ammunition to use against you. BE QUIET!!!

    BTW, did I miss something or have you not posted the particulars about your situation? Inquiring minds want to know. The members gave me good advice when I posted my little fiasco some months back.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As you most likely can't tell us any specific information, the following was shared by my Attorney if anything ever occured in my life where I was questioned by the police:

    The rule of thumb is very simple....DO NOT make a statement, written or verbal, DO NOT answer any questions. State simply that you wish to know what you are being charged with and/or investigated for, and if they insist that you comply with making a statement, tell them to either charge you or release you. AT that point you may need to call an attorney.


    I have been in a position where I have had to read someone their rights on hundreds of occasions. IT is amazing what people will tell me even after I have explained to them that they do not have to talk to me.



    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What I am referring to is a Commander's Inquiry. It is a Commander's investigation that has the same ramifications as being arrested by the MP's. The Military Police apprehend the suspect. They interrogate the suspect, witnesses etc.... Then all information goes to the Commander for Commander's Action. The MP's can be bypassed if the incident happens "in house" via a Commander's Inquiry. I'd rather not discuss the details. I'll just say that someone wants to get out of basic training very badly and is pulling ALL the stops. My first-line supervisor knows me well but, as a military police investigator, I have seen many screwed up Commander's Inquiries leave the innocent guy hanging with careers ruined.
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  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not have much of a grasp of military procedures...Is there any military law books that you can access to see what is required of you ?

    Good luck sir, I have been in a "witch hunt" situtation before. It all worked out fine, but it was a real pain getting through it.

    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had to live and abide by those books as an investigator. Actually, the "book" is the Manual For Courts Martial (MCM). I am very familiar with the book. This kid is a real "putz" so to speak. I think I am just going to give my statement and be done with it.
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  • TrinityScrimshawTrinityScrimshaw Member Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are you allowed counsel?

    If so, get some!

    If not, or you guilty?

    If so, ruuuuuuuunnnnn like the wind!

    If not, stand and fight, the truth will win out.

    Unless, someone is out to get you, than you still need to cover you backside.

    Remember Friend, if you need any assitance I'm there for ya.

    Trinity+++

    "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    TS--I appreciate it. This inquiry here on Gunbroker stemmed initially from a bit of curiosity. I guess the MP in me is paranoid. This type of thing happens all the time in the recruiting world and the chain-of-command historically backs up the recruiter. The kid was a liar and lied to me from day one. As an investigator I always thought that people who "lawyered up" were guilty as sin. I still believe that most of them were. I just don't want to take a mole-hill and turn it into a mountain. If I go down, so does my NCOIC and my First Sergeant for reasons I will not divulge right now. There are extenuating circumstances that hinted at the possibility of discrepancies in this clown's statetments but the enlistment packet was blessed off by NCOIC and the First Sergeant who had full knowledge of those possible discrepancies. Sometimes you can't always find things out about people before you let them enlist. The only information that I had came from the mouth of the liar who I should have suspected from day one since that is when he started lying to me about things that I WAS able to look into. I'm just concerned that the fact that he was permitted to enlist AFTER he had already lied to me once (and was proven a liar) will be held against me even though I am not the disapproving authority for such things.
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  • EX-SFEX-SF Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I understand exactly where you are, Idsman -

    If questioned, tell the truth ---- what you knew for a fact, not what you suspected.

    A liar will steal, and a thief will lie --- this guy is his own worst enemy, and his lies will bite him. I hope he's thrown out with a BCD.

    Hang in there, partner!
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You have to be on Active Duty for a minimum of 180 days in order to receive anything other than an Uncharacterized or General Discharge. He won't get the Big Chicken Dinner but I'd be more than happy to feed him one when he comes back to my office begging to help me put him in the Army when he realizes all of the good that he passed up. Had he revealed what he had hidden, he may still be there in Basic Training today. IMHO he was holding it back so that he would have one last "easy out" in case he didn't like it.
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  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    Idsman,
    I was in your situation this time last year. I really wish I would have sought counsel. I figured the old"And the truth shall make you free" bitwas the way to go, WRONG! Someone may be out to make an example of you, for heaven's sake, get legal advice unless you are 100% sure that you are in the clear not to seek a lawyer. I am no longer a recruiter, and should still be there by the "truth". (and I told the honest truth) Hang in there man!


    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who will decide your fate??? Is it really better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6? In the event of any criminal charge, thanks to the Sixth Amendment, you have a right to a trial by Jury. If you face a criminal trial, you will be tormented by questions. Does the Jury share my values? Do most people understand the law, or do they watch too much TV for the answers they seek? You'll Pray, you'll worry, you'll wonder.

    What you don't want to do is give them reason to believe outright you are guilty. Opening your mouth could be the worst possible thing you do. Let your attorney handle that, and refuse to say anything without one, and it could be worth the money to get a good one, because freedom is priceless. I guess if the Jury truly is of your peers, you'll have no difficulties, the problem is, you and your attorney do not make that call. What they can do is call to dismiss a Jury you or your attorney believe are not your peers. That is in the judge's hands.

    That's all I have on the matter.....

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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