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Posse Comitatus changes under discussion again...

offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
The law commonly referred to as Posse Comitatus, which protects Americans from despotic rule using our own military against us domestically, is under discussion for changes again. Apparently some think it might be a good idea to allow the U.S. military to do domestic duty in certain circumstances of terrorism crisis. Frankly, I'm reminded of the one good line in a generally mediocre movie, wherein Bruce Willis, playing a military officer says, "The police are a scalpel; the military is a broadsword -- you don't want us in the streets of New York," or words to that effect. This will give those paranoid about black helicopters the heebie-jeebies. Sanctioned troops in American streets, or airports, or subways, by legal mandate? Hmmmmm... It would be funny (not) if terrorists managed to turn the tide toward America becoming less democratic, rather than exporting democracy as we've always tried to do in the past. This is the first time in my memory that conservative, law and order Republicans have had so much soul-searching to do when it comes to having things "their way." Seems like the mood of the country is to do anything that makes them feel more secure, in some cases granting CCWs and more guns, in others putting the military on duty. In the words of the old song, "somethin's happenin' here; what it is ain't exactly clear..." You can say THAT again. Here's one more time I'm glad there's an NRA representing me in Washinton to help sort out the good from the terrible ideas.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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Comments

  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bush and Ashcroft are starting to scare me. Where were their little yellow and red level of terror warnings when we really needed them, which was Sept 10? Info on the Trade Ctr. strike had poured into FBI DC office yet they issued no warning; they did nothing. Don't forget Ashcroft was in charge of the FBI on that day and he reports to Bush. Which inept FBI supervisors have been fired? None. Half of Bush's actions look like a big cover your * operation. It is alarming how, rather than simply reforming the inept FBI and CIA, the supposedly conservative administration is willing to increase the size of government and reduce civil liberties. If they want to stop skyjackings, on Sept 12 sign a directive to allow pilots to begin packing guns the next day. These guys are acting the way I would have expected Clinton and Gore to act. Now, they want to modify Posse Comitatus. That is scary to anyone who thinks the government made mistakes at Ruby Ridge or at Waco. Not to mention, Bush is spending money like a drunken sailor in an increasingly inept War on Terror. Destruction of our civil liberties and a huge national debt may be more dangerous than Al Quaeda.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen,
    What you say is very true, and TOTALLY shows what is going on in the government.

    When are people going to realize that Bush and his cronies are no better than the demos? In the long run, they are both going to screw us. :(

    It sucks. We need a TRUE third party to get rid of this corruption.

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you need to pay a little more atention to the Paranoia talk before falling more deeply into a deadly aquiessence (Whatever).

    So many posting litteraly telling all of you it was going to happen ..
    OK tiger, now you have a bear trap shut hard on your testicles ....!

    What are you going to do about it .........????

    AWWW ! I know !!! write to your favorite politician and ask him to do something about it !!!!!

    Yep ! he might get you a better and stronger spring and add it to the bear trap !!!!

    Growwwllll!!!!

    breath showly poing,!!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!

    Miawwww!!!!

    JD

    Good...? , Bad...? Who cares ? as long I am the one with the the gun.....
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bush is a horses *.


    "The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
    -James Madison
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  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings ,i was saying this and more a month ago and some of the more informed like 4god@co' jumped all over me for starting unsubstanciated rumors. i still smell a rat called bush conserning 9-11. as far as the possie comintatus that is the only pc between urban warfare and the republic. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dadsfreehold- Should have been here a couple months ago. Say anything critical about Bush, and the Bush cheerleaders would get in a tizzy. One guy actually was going to submit my information to the secret service, 'cause I criticized the president.
    Lately, it seems even the cheerleaders are realizing that something is wrong with this guy.

    "The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
    -James Madison
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The police can be bad enough -- witness the Chicago cops at the 68 political convention. The National Guard can be worse -- witness Kent State, where 5 innocent students, maybe demonstrators maybe not, were shot by American military rifles. That was a real wakeup call for American middle class parents of college kids at the time.

    Bush has never been a dynamic guy, and it was his good luck to have these events happen on his watch. Still, I think Gore would have been worse. But the military has never been in the law-changing business and I think now is not a wise time to start. It was an Air Force senior officer quoted today as being in favor of changes to Posse Comitatus. That in itself suggests it is a bad idea.

    Any internal self defense measures passed in Congress, should, in my opinion, be parallelled by measures to strengthen and return the Second Amendment to its appropriate place -- arming a law-abiding citizenry with militia-appropriate modern small arms. Otherwise, any changes to Posse Comitatus is liable to throw the balance out of whack. Ashcroft knows what needs doing, but I'm not sure Bush will find either the will or the way to force the Supreme Court's hand to doing it. In the meantime, we have 20,000 gun laws infringing the American citizen's right to bear arms while discussing checkpoints and military guards inside American borders. The Republicans, so far, have the cart before the horse, in a government of, by and for the people.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think many bureocrats are playing with fire ......

    There are forces within the American People that can reduce the current goverment to a pile of ashes and the rest of the world with it.

    JD

    Good...? , Bad...? Who cares ? as long I am the one with the the gun.....
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  • thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680 ✭
    edited November -1
    Is there a Judge Dread fan club?Is it o.k. with you,Judge,if I start one?

    www.waveformwear.com
    The new wave in free expression.
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  • thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680 ✭
    edited November -1
    Just recently,was there not talk of empowering state and local law enforcement to enforce federal laws?And,was there also talk of federal law enforcement being able to "enlist the help" of local law enforcement to serve federal warrants and arrests? Now they want to
    give the military internal police powers?
    I'm practicing my goose step as I'm typing this.

    www.waveformwear.com
    The new wave in free expression.
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If we were a country that was under siege like Israel is, you could see where all the panicky measures of the Bush team might be justified. But we get one terrorist hit, which would have been stopped cold by the simple expedient of putting a little 5-shot Smith on an ankle holster of every pilot, and the government has gone into panic mode. The people have gone along with it. I don't know if Bush is dumb enough to believe all the bs he says, or whether he is making political hay out of it and covering up for the mistakes his own administration made which led up to 9/11.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror, I know at least one of the kids killed at Kent State was simply walking to class & was whacked at a fairly long distance. If memory serves, some or all of the others were equally innocent of any provocative act.

    salzo, Bush is no saint and some of his actions seem incredibly stupid (not arming pilots) and frightening (limitations on 4th & 1st Amendments) - but that still does not change the fact he is at least two orders of magnitude better than any other choice we had in that election, realistic chance of election or not. Voting for the best alternative even when the candidate does not match the entirety of one's preferences is still better than not voting at all.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "salzo, Bush is no saint and some of his actions seem incredibly stupid (not arming pilots) and frightening (limitations on 4th & 1st Amendments) - but that still does not change the fact he is at least two orders of magnitude better than any other choice we had in that election, realistic chance of election or not. Voting for the best alternative even when the candidate does not match the entirety of one's preferences is still better than not voting at all."

    I beg to differ.

    "Democrats will stab you in the chest, but Republicans will stab you in the back."

    I would have much rather had Gore win if I knew this **** was going to happen.

    With Gore, at least there'd be no Patriot Act and other BS legislation. Sure, he'd have banned AR15's and FAL's, but those who turn them in didn't deserve their Liberty anyways.


    Stand And Be Counted

    Edited by - Evil ATF on 07/23/2002 20:51:46
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMO we have been voting for what we perceive to be the lesser of 2 (or 3) evils for a long time, now.
    also IMO there's no damn way that al baby is a lesser evil than GWB.
    im not a drum beater but that guy really scares me.
    barto

    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    Police officers are trained in the law and how to deal with the criminal aspects. The military is trained to kill, not talk, and is not trained in the law or the constitutional rights of civilians.
    Sounds like Germany/Russia- with the military on every corner and fear in the hearts of the people of saying or doing the wrong thing!!
    Total control over civilians- is it the future?
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bush still haves the chance to become a "false" anty-christ.....

    The bad thing is he is "mule" intended to be a "true" one .....

    But looking at the past elections and choices ...............

    Heil bush our savior and lord ! Zig heil !!!!! Long live our Furher!
    ,long live the motherland.... (It will be for only 27 years !)


    JD

    Good...? , Bad...? Who cares ? as long I am the one with the the gun.....
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  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, i know all the arguements about third parties being the spoilers in an election. but if we always vote for the lesser of the evils we should be preping for a first class screwin'. we now have the distinstion of being gang raped by both parties. until we get a back bone and end this cycle it will continue, and now with post 9-11 hysteria it becomes most difficult indeed. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
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