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Ten Most Important Guns

airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
Just finished watching the History Channel program titled "Ten Most Important Guns".

According to a fifteen member panel of 'Gun Experts' they came up with the following list ranked by importance:

10 Browning Automatic Rifle
9 Kentucky Rifle
8 Matchlock Musket
7 M1 Rifle - Garand
6 AK-47
5 Mauser 98
4 Browning Bess Musket
3 Colt 1911 .45 Cal Pistol
2 Colt Paterson Revolver
1 Maxim Machine Gun

Do you agree with the above listing? How many of the Top Ten do you have in your collection?

B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
«1

Comments

  • E.WilliamsE.Williams Member Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dont own any but I agree with 7-6-3 and 10.I think some others would have belonged in that list but Im no expert:)

    Eric S. Williams
  • trooperchintrooperchin Member Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...........what about the AR line of weapons.....brought plastic guns along.....

    Go Army Beat Navy
    IF you wanna have fun jine the cavalry
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why are these the "Ten Most Important Guns".

    If there's not a Ruger in the list, then I don't find it Credible.
    just kidding

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RugerNiner,
    I think you're just being bias.
    (just kidding)

    bullelk
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess the 10 most important guns would be relative to a time in history and exactly what that gun was responsible for doing at that time. To me I agree with all but number 3, as the only reason they put that in there is that its a favorite pistol for a lot of people, but as to what its acomplished in history, or responsible for affecting history, I'd say its worthless. It maybe a great design, but so are a lot of others, not mentioned, so I feel its been put in there in error. It should relinquish its spot for the M-16, its truly affected history, much as the AK-47.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • Spring CreekSpring Creek Member Posts: 1,260
    edited November -1
    Leaving the Browning Hi-Power out is an error.
    Unbelievable number of countries have used it as their military handgun.


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  • airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spring Creek,

    Agree with your comment concerning the Browning 1935 Hi-Power. Would say they went with the Colt 1911 because it was brought to market first. Using that rationale why didn't they list the Luger DWM.

    B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rob, the 1911 style has the honor of being the first. And probably THE service pistol with the longest history that worked, and worked. It is not finicky in its GI form, its loose and can hit a man sized target at 50 yards, as it was designed.

    The M16 was and is the wests answer to the AK, it is a assualt rifle built to mimic the AK in firepower, size and weight. Still the AK was the first workable assualt rifle to be fielded, and it has the dubious honor of being idiot proof as it needed to be for the conscript armys behind the iron curtian.

    The Browning HP was built after the 1911, which spawned the design for the HP

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, itend to agree with airborne about the luger , or posibly the broomhandle, both the creation of broshard(sic) because of the inovated action and cartridge design. another the henry (sic) rifle. just a thought. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
  • azzeaterazzeater Member Posts: 187 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm young, what the hek is a Kentucky rifle and what is the iron curtain???


    hey all!
  • PJPJ Member Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What about the Gatling Gun?

    Pete

    "Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    azzeater, .....
    .....
    .....
    .....
    I dont know what to say
    .....
    cept you just made me feel a lot older than I am

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dads-freehold,

    Good point. Could not understand why either a Henry, Winchester or Browning lever action was not listed.



    B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Varmintmist,
    I understand you theory of the 1911's importance, but I dont hold the gun in such high esteem as a historical event maker. It hasnt turned the enemy running, its merely been a long time sidearm, and a good design. If I were to give any pistol, and its not a military version, a high place of honor in history of importance, it would definitely be a Colt SAA. Its been around longer, proven itself as well as the 1911, accurate, and reliable. Its design may not be totally unique in itself, but it has set a bench mark for all revolvers to meet, and that in my opinion gives it the edge over the 1911. I also believe its not mistake or coincidence that the 1911 uses an identical bullet diameter to the Colt SAA. The Colt revolver truly set the standard in my opinion.Hmmm... just looking at the original post again, the Colt SAA and the Patterson arent the same gun are they? Showing my lack of memory and knowledge here.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

    Edited by - robsguns on 07/08/2002 20:22:04
  • airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    robsguns,

    Thank they gave Colt recognition but in the form of Colt Paterson Revolver, as the Paterson was actually the predecessor to the Colt SAA.

    B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    airborne, Thanks for clearing that up, I wasnt sure which one of my references I could look that up in without looking too hard.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rob, you are dead on on bullet diam. and the power factor was held to that of the 45 LC (?)(brain strain) which had been replaced by the 38 during action in the phillipines. BUT the 1911 replaced the revolver for the US, thus it is a turning point in that regard. It also had a 60+ year history, with the war record to go along with it. The function, and power was better than any widely used military auto of the period.

    The Browning Half Power is also a great gun, but it is not the first.

    The SAA is also a good choice, but it is still a refinement, probably the pinnacle of period revolvers, however it didnt usher is a era in firearms, as did the 1911.

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great choice for #1. Has anyone read John Keegan's "The
    Face of Battle"? Great section in it on how machine guns
    changed the nature of soldiering and warfare.
  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Did someone forget the JENNINGS ??
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok azzeater, i had a good cry in my beer.

    The Iron Curtian was the theroetical divide behind which the commies worked and plotted against us during the Cold War (heard of that?) It encompassed the commie countries and was a barrier to our way of thinking.

    The Kentucky long rifle (aka the Pennsylvaina Rifle) was a very accurate flintlock rifle that was used by the milita against the British to great effect, basicly as a sniper due to the slower load time of a rifle versus a smoothbore, during the Revolution. At the time the Armys weapons were Brown Bess muskets, BIG ball, lousy accuracy, but if you are shooting at a line of uniforms 50yards away, you dont need accuracy.

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Varmintmist,
    Humph! Good arguments, I think you're right, the 1911 may have a better reason to be in there than the SAA. I'm not sure I like to admit it, but you presented a very good argument. Now this is why I come here, learning is occuring.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Varmintmist,

    During the program they said the British tactics were to put, at times, as many as 2000 soldiers abreast, firing the Brown Bess. Trained troops could fire 4/5 shots per minute. That was a lot of lead flying through the air. They did not say but wasn't the Brown Bess a .58 cal. ball?

    Yes, if you were across the field 50 to 100 away it would definitely get your attention.

    B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ruger --
    The new site tools have gone to your head -- it looks like you are either shouting or writing with crayons. How about going back to standard ol' Times New Roman? As for the TV show, I've seen that episode and they make a very interesting case for each gun. But you'd have to see the show to understand why they rate each of these an important advance in gun development.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • EVILDR235EVILDR235 Member Posts: 4,398 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with RugerNiner.I worship the little 22 auto pistol.The rest have come,and gone.But the little auto pistol is still with us after 53 years.Dr.Evil
    PS, Thanks Bill
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I totally agree with their #1 choice.

    The Maxim '08 was the first real machine-gun, and as exemplified in WWI, it changed the face of battle for good. The American Browning, British Vickers, and Russian Goryunov models were all based on Hiram Maxim's design.

    He was an American, of course. I wonder why he marketed the design to the Germans and Russians...
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,702 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Brown Bess was .75 caliber. A similar musket, made in France and .69 caliber was used in great quantity by American troops. A favorite load was one .69 ball with three .30 buckshot on top of it. That would be a wicked load in those 100-yard battles.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror;

    I've been using Book Antiqua long before I first logged on to forthehunt.com
    I find Book Antiqua easy to read.
    I use it for business letters.
    I choose to use size 4 here because they have it for me to use.
    I admit the above post is a little over the top with size 5.
    But at least I don't use those stupid little smiley faces.


    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, varmit' ibelieve you'll find that altho the ak series is the most prolific it was not the first. that was the german strum gewher (stg 43 or later designation mp44). another canidate for alternate 10 best. just a point of order. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Germans did it first, but it went into production to late to make any difference. The AK marked history simply by sheer volume and being the one to supply all of the communist forces

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • FitzFitz Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya know the liberals call it the "Hitler Channel". That is by far their best program, but it's not on very often. We should all send e-mails to them and ask them to increase that list to 50 so they can add many of the others that should be covered, including the Hi-Power, the Thompson, the Peacemaker, hell, even the Ruger 10/22.

    Fitz
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gotta put a 12 guage shotgun on that list somewhere.
    And I object to them refering to the Pennsylvania rifle as a "kentucky rifle".

    "The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
    -James Madison
  • airborneairborne Member Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fitz,

    Great idea! Do you have an email address that will get to somebody responsible for programing format, etc.

    B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    quote:
    The AK marked history simply by sheer volume and being the one to supply all of the communist forces


    Say WHAT???


    Yeah, it's amazing that the world got by for all those years without Colt and Armalite around to reinvent the wheel.
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    AK47 was developed around 1945.
    Who supplied the communist forces before that?

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullseye, read up for the rest of IMHO

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd have to put the Henry in there and drop one of the others. It changed the way soldiers fired their weapons and the way armies had to think about supplying the troops in battle. The second part is why so many generals were hesitant to issue it.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, gee i love this topic, and i have to say this about the m-16. it was not the west's answer to the ak, the beligens came out with the fn-fal in 308 that became the nato weapon of choice for some years even before the german g-1 also in 308 that was adopted by most third world countries, not under communist control or threat. both of these saw years of service and action in various places of the world from the mid fifties to about late seventies, some countries still use the g-1 and g-3 under local contracts. the u s intries did't come till late 60's with the m-14 about 1963 and later the m-16 about 1968. even the earilest examples of the fn-fal in combat where by far the prefered weapon when compared to the m-14 and m-16 onthe world market(see jane's small weapons). again the g-1 and g-3 are considered far superior tho more complicated for the average grunt. just another point to consider. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Colt 1911 was from a Browning patent. This was taken from the (time line) on Browning's site."Feb. 17, 1910, Patents were filed on a 45 caliber semi-automatic pistol. It served as the official United States military sidearm for almost 75 years."The Colt Paterson Revolver was # 2 because it was the first handgun to have a Revolving cylinder.You had to watch the show, to see that this list, because of the time frames involved, changed history.


    If I knew then, what I know now.
  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    quote: the u s intries did't come till late 60's with the m-14 about 1963 and later the m-16 about 1968
    The M-14 was adopted as the standard US rifle in 1957, the M-16 in 1964 (but not widely fielded untill about 1966)
    quote: even the earilest examples of the fn-fal in combat where by far the prefered weapon when compared to the m-14 Not by me; the M-14 is the second best combat rifle ever made. (But it was an awfully dumb idea to think that it could replace the BAR as a fire team's prinicple weapon.)

    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My ten would be a little different.

    1) Jaeger, the kentucky's daddy, first practical use of rifling and flintlock.

    2)Brown Bess, built to standard patterns, interchangable parts.

    3)1851 Navy Colt, The patterson was a flawed fragile design with no standard caliber. Navy combined practical size, pointability and sufficent caliber in same package. Was also much less breakage prone than the patterson.

    4)Peabody/Peabody Martini/Martini Henry, Just ask the Brits or the Turks.

    5)Henry/Model 66 Winchester, Practical rapid repeater. Again look to the Turks for combat use.

    6)Lebel, the gun that gave the world smokeless powder.

    7)96 Mauser pistol, Though not officially adopted by any army as a primary sidearm, was the first practical semi automatic military pistol.

    8)93/98 Mauser rifle, no explanation nessasary

    9)Maxim, I agree with the origional list that this one belongs.

    10)Gewehr 43, The AK couldn't have existed without this one.


    Woods

    How big a boy are ya?

    Edited by - woodsrunner on 07/09/2002 11:51:19
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