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Need some advice from you guys. Long read

OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭
edited July 2015 in General Discussion
Being that most of you are older then me and I respect all your opinions, I need some fatherly advice from you guys and your opinion. I am only going to give you my side of this and a little back ground.

I have been a member of our shooting club, 400 members, for 34 years. Our current president has raided our treasury to his own benefits, and made it look like it was for the good of the club. I sit on the executive board as a range officer. He had one of the other members of the EB make us a road through wetlands. He also per cured the club a trailer for a club house. 80x40 double wide. All this is good, except he never got permits against my and several other EB members objections. We are now being fined and sued by pinelands, DEP, the township,Wetlands and the Army corps of engineers. This is not good. Our legal fees are bankrupting us. He told us all to suck it up. He has been a member for 13 years. He has dismissed all the member of the executive board that disagree with him, on bogus charges, except myself and the VP. All this is done behind the members backs. I am fighting tooth and nail to save the club and represent the members. I am loosing.[:(!] He paid another member 47,000 dollars for the road, which is a joke and unusable. He also keeps paying this guy outrageous monies for trivial things, like 4,000 to fill in a pot hole and 5,00 to remove a tree about 12" round. I know they are embezzling the money, but cannot prove it. The damn members won't show up to the meetings because he put it in fine print and very obscure places in our news letter, when he wants to do things. I can go on and on.

Here is my question. We are in for the fight of our lives with this club and the general membership wants me to take over as President, next election. I just don't know what to do because of all the fall out and court stuff going on. Our current President is a lot smarter then I am, as far as legal stuff, but I have the clubs and members best interest at heart. I don't want to be the one left holding the bag when the devil comes to call, but I don't want to lose the club either. I am so desperate to save this place and now have the general membership behind me. I have made over 300 calls this weekend to let the members know what is going on behind their backs and to come to the quarterly meeting in October. At that meeting, our current President is going to try to change our bylaws to extend his term another 2 years. Subtle changes that you really have to read. I can send someone a copy of the changes and our current bylaws.

I probably left a lot out, so ask me and I will tell you. It would take up ten pages to tell you all everything that is going on. I truly need some advice from you guys as what to do legally and morally. I am not perfect and never led an organization this big. I am a little scared but have the confidence and determination to do it. The majority of our members are about 60 to 70 years old and I am like a kid to them. I am frustrated and need your help. I will take you criticisms as well as advice. Most of you can pretty much figure out my personality from the forums and some have meet me. Thank you for reading and please help me make the right decision. John Oakie Taggart

PS, This club has been around since 1933 .

Comments

  • notnownotnow Member Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Attorney time. One familiar with oganizational matters.
  • beneteaubeneteau Member Posts: 8,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Obtain an attorney. Have the attorney obtain a court order to have the club's books audited.
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  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It ain't what you know its what you can prove, you will not be the first club that went bust because of the indifference of the majority of the members.

    Kind of sounds like a microcosm of our nation don't it...

    With that said ain't you moving soon?
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,518 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beneteau

    Obtain an attorney. Have the attorney obtain a court order to have the club's books audited.





    +1. When the current guy goes to jail.. you become president.
  • M1A762M1A762 Member Posts: 3,426
    edited November -1
    My experience with a similar situation in a motorcylce club was resolved with violence. Sometimes people only understand a good beating. This might sound extreme to most people, but if you get two or three club members you can trust and beat this guys *, he will understand. Then tell him he is not President anymore and don't ever come back.

    The key to this succeeding is for everyone to keep their mouth shut. You take over as President and nobody knows what happened to the other guy. Taking the "legal" route with this guy will get you nowhere and chances are your club will most likely dissolve in the proccess.
  • m88.358winm88.358win Member Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The guy sounds like a professional thief. He is stealing from your club. $5 grand to remove a tree? A non approved road through wet lands is big trouble and could end up costing a ton of money in fines and the cost of repair.
    I work for a company that had a small amount of run off water from a job site filtrate into some wet lands and was fined 350k, not to mention the tens of thousands spent to repair.

    Simple enough,find another gun club to end the frustration.
  • ruger41ruger41 Member Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you guys let this ahole run an unauthorized road through wetlands you guys are toast..period. My sister works for the State of CA Dept of Transportation and deals with construction companies. She has seen companies do exactly what your president did and worse. They get fined and sometimes put out of business. If you believe he is raiding the money for himself you better have darn good proof before you accuse him (as well as talk about him in public) as you could find yourself on the end of a slander lawsuit. Sounds like if the other members of the club don't care about whats going on enough to get involved then maybe it's time you find another club..or if you're that passionate about it run for president. ..you'll find out fast if people believe in you or not.....but you'll then be responsible for a ton of bs headed your way.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I would talk to someone in the state attorney general's office. Sounds like a forensic accountant is needed to review the books.

    Neal
  • bullshotbullshot Member Posts: 14,718 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by M1A762
    My experience with a similar situation in a motorcylce club was resolved with violence. Sometimes people only understand a good beating. This might sound extreme to most people, but if you get two or three club members you can trust and beat this guys *, he will understand. Then tell him he is not President anymore and don't ever come back.

    The key to this succeeding is for everyone to keep their mouth shut. You take over as President and nobody knows what happened to the other guy. Taking the "legal" route with this guy will get you nowhere and chances are your club will most likely dissolve in the proccess.




    This is incredibly bad advise and an incredibly bad place (The World Wide Web) to suggest such action.

    Hopefully you intended to use green font and don't really believe that this is an acceptable solution to this issue.
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"
  • notnownotnow Member Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like the king has alienated the membership. Just the situation the king could use to his advantage. This guy could be ten steps ahead of anything you try. Schemers usually are. He probably knows your next moves and is ready for them. Is he angling to end up with the property after he gets the money. Where's the money for attorney fees going to come from. If you ever get this squared away, you may want to add the position of solicitor to the board.
  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,271 ******
    edited November -1
    The wetlands issue is a biggie.
    Time to walk away.
    Maybe come back when the dust settles.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    1. Cover your own *.

    Take every scrap of information you have or can dig up to a lawyer that you hire to protect YOU. You want that lawyer to examine two questions first and foremost

    A. What, if any, illegal activities does the lawyer see or suspect in the information?

    B. What, if any, are the risks to yourself for civil or criminal penalty as an officer, employee, member or volunteer of the association?

    2. This next step depends upon the lawyer's analysis. If the lawyer sees criminal or civil risks, then it is the lawyer who should present the case to the appropriate authorities.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    I'm sorry, but I think the club is toast.

    The time to make 300 calls to the members and retain an attorney was BEFORE he put the road in and did all the other stuff. As a member of the *, I would think that even if you made a loud noise about it, your own failure to take legal action (possibly under the club's by-laws as well, depending on what they were) and bring the permit issue to the attention of the authorities means that you share in his culpability.

    I would ask an attorney for legal advice as to your own legal standing here, and show up with all documentation you can for the initial consultation.

    It's quite likely that, unless you can prove that he acted alone and that you did everything in your power to stop him, the land will be seized to cover lawsuit costs anyhow, or else you'll be forced to sell. You can only hope that the membership and the * isn't held for the costs.

    Yes, talk to a good attorney, as soon as possible.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lawyer up. Now. Before you get dragged into this as a member of the *, you could be held accountable financially for his actions. You personally.

    Have had 2 run ins with crooks running a non-profit. President of a local Youth Athletic Association (kids sports) was one- we caught her having embezzled over $39 K that we could prove. The other was President of a HOA. $200 K we could prove- along with violation of some serious EPA matters.

    Make one more call to a lawyer. No, really.
  • m88.358winm88.358win Member Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One more thing, you should delete this post. Now.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would resign now and walk away, its not even worth paying a lawyer good gun money, at most stay a member and enjoy shooting



    a club I am a member of had similar issues {stealing}, the problem I foresee is all members are part owner, so all could be held responsible even if it 1/400th


    I personally wouldn't be an E board member if you payed me, not worth my time
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by m88.358win

    One more thing, you should delete this post. Now.




    Agreed.
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a lawyer to cover my * and proof that I as an executive Board member, did not vote to approve these violation, in writing. Covered my * there. As far a violence, NEVER, not that type of person or route I would take ever. As far as the books, we do an audit every year by an outside company and pay 700 to have that done. I will not accuse these members of stealing, but it is my personal belief. The current President loss his home, business and wife is dying of cancer with no insurance, hence I believe the reason. He is also spending money that is insane on stuff that cost a fraction, through friends, hence the payoff. We have never spent this kind of money in years and never had a problem.. He also loaded the board with thick as thieves, friends. He appointed friends to the board and also got friends voted in by holding meeting with the majority of his friends behind close doors, with a loophole in the bylaws. That has been closed now. These guys will not be on the board come October, unless it is too late. Guess I am trying to save something that cannot be saved. I agree, pinelands and wetlands are going to end up taking our property through fines. They are willing to work with us but they want things that ore ridiculous or out of our control, for us to keep it going. One such thing is, they want us to move our rifle range, have it done by a professional, that THEY choose, for 425,000. Uh, we only have 9,000 dollars left in the bank due to legal fees.

    I will see how it all plays out as we have a court date this week to answer the charges from the Township, DEP, wetlands and pinelands. It's not going to be good. Were doomed and I am grasping at straws. Thanks for your advice but I just have to realize I am only one person of two people against 10 others on the board. Very sad to see someone steal our club after almost 82 years. We got blind sided by a crook that was good.[;)] Again, thanks. I was just hoping against all hope and looking for a ray of light. Damn, just Damn
  • booter_onebooter_one Member Posts: 2,345
    edited November -1
    First, contact an attorney. By being an EB member you should have a set of bylaws, and possibly a constitution. Should be language for misappropriations or similar language. You as a EB member are bound by those, period, unless county, state laws trump. I would think there is language for removal of a rogue officer of the club. Call a special meeting to deal with the STUFF. In the event, you are overruled by other EB members, you should resign with a letter as to why expressing your complete disagreement of the current and prior activities. Hopefully some of the issues should be in the minutes of past meetings. Hopefully the club had the foresight to have its EB bonded for their protection as well as the Club's. I sat as a trustee on a health care plan and all trustees were bonded for $1 million.

    You are probably in way over your head on this one, so again, reach out for a professional. The burden need to be shifted to the one or two that created the problems/issues. If you have not kept a log or journal, start one immediately and include everything relating to ANY club actions.

    By being an EB member puts you neck out for a mile and if this was not addressed early on, it could be shown that by no action, the EB had shown no opposition.

    If memory serves me correctly you have mentioned this before, so do not hesitate, and now for the last line, talk to an attorney now! May be the best spent money in some time.


    The club can be put back together after the mess is finalized.

    (had a couple typo's to fix)
  • booter_onebooter_one Member Posts: 2,345
    edited November -1
    I agree, copy this thread and then delete or have it deleted.

    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by m88.358win

    One more thing, you should delete this post. Now.




    Agreed.
  • fordsixfordsix Member Posts: 8,554 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    lawyer,, you got the army corps and the wetlands on you back thay have more bucks than you do
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,208 ******
    edited November -1
    Is this the same guy there was a post about awhile back for stealing from the club??
  • thorhammerthorhammer Member Posts: 990 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am a member of a gun club out here and the officers in charge are
    financially responsible for the club. We had to sign papers each year
    to not hold them accountable for any wrong doing or accidental
    injuries. As an officer of the club you would be held maybe financially
    responsibility for the damages of the previous president.


    The paper is a "Club Release, Indemnification and Hold Harmless Agreement"

    I hope the best for you.

    Thor
  • roswellnativeroswellnative Member Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oak
    Move to ga and join one of many stable gun clubs.
    River bend

    Don't run for president imho

    Ros
    Although always described as a cowboy, Roswellnative generally acts as a righter of wrongs or bodyguard of some sort, where he excels thanks to his resourcefulness and incredible gun prowesses.
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sell your house and move south
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Bylaws of the "club" will/should dictate if any financial wrong-doing has occured. Usually checks over a specified amount would require Two signers, such as President and Secretary Treasurer. Expenditures over a certain amount would require the approval of the "membership".....etc. Good luck...you will need it
  • Ford 23Ford 23 Member Posts: 3,129
    edited November -1
    Guarantee you one or more of the 300 are feeding info back to the bad guy. I would be careful who I talked to and said. Write a log using different language as you can with each you talk to when the bad guy comes up with something similar you will know who the snitch is
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You must have bylaws and rules that have been violated...

    Use the process to oust the bad apple and file charges for compensation.
  • chollagardenschollagardens Member Posts: 4,614 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .......... Our current President is a lot smarter then I am, as far as legal stuff,.......

    Hire a good lawyer smarter than your current president
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