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So what if???

mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
A law abiding citizen (such as most of us on here) is sleeping with his wife and kids in the house, he hears something in the night has time to reach his firearm and all of a sudden a bunch of guys bust in his house. What would you do? Now Police say they yell "POLICE" as they rush into a home.
1) How often do they actually yell POLICE
2) Even if they do who is going to hear them after a flash bang?
3) Who is that coherant when first woken up? Would you be thinking"My Family!!" or "These guys dressed in all black must just be police." I know this may not be the best formed question but after hearing about police raids I often wonder if I would be dead if the police got my address by mistake.
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Comments

  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, consider what happens to an armed person without due process and you have your answer. while living in tampa this very senerio or something close happened at least three times. these are a matter of public record. respt submitted dads-freehold
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  • CWatsonCWatson Member Posts: 964 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something liked that here in CA a few years ago.The LA county Sheriffs raided a ranch looking for drugs.The owner was sleeping,heard a bang and crash ran to the living room with a 38,bang shot dead.Did this guy have a record?Nope .Did he have drugs on his property?Nope.Why did it have to be?Your property can be seized if if any drug infraction takes place on the property,with or without you knowleadge.This gentelman was wealthy and the property had a value of over 4million and anything the Sheriffs sieze they auction off and keep the procedes.The final irony is this raid was performed across county lines,sorry my memory fails me but it was either Ventura or San Bernardino County that the LA County Sheriffs crossed into.CW

    1.A near miss is still a miss!
    2.Before I got married I spent half my money on women and guns,THE REST I WASTED!
    3.Wasn't me!
    4.KILL EM' ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT EM' OUT!
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    Fortunately, such raids take the residents by surprise, so that they do not have the chance to resist if they were so inclined. This is good if the cops get the right house, even better if they get the wrong one. We really don't want anyone to get hurt, not even the bad guy.

    I have been on a few of such raids, and I don't like it. Nagging doubt in the back of my mind. Do we have the right house? What if the doper thinks, rightfully so, that we are robbers rather than police and resists? What if we have to hurt or kill someone? What if we do everything right and still come up wrong?

    I went in the back door once and the first guy I saw took off down a hall to the front of the house. I stayed on him into the front bedroom. He dove across the bed and was reaching for a bookshelf. No books, of course, but there was a High Standard .22 Derringer there. He had his hand nearly on it when he looked back over his shoulder at the hollow points looking at him from the cylinder of my S&W 686. He gingerly pulled his hand back and surrendered. He said he thought we were a ripoff party, not cops. Truth or not? Only he knows.

    I don't like no-knock raids at all. Actually, there is knocking, but it is with a ram.

    Fortunately, my city is fairly small, the dopers are known, and it is extremely unlikely we will ever be serving a warrant at the wrong house.

    One day (this was great) we got a lot of outside help and hit about 10 houses simultaneously. Again, no wrong addresses, and no one hurt.

    This stuff will continue until the powers that be finally decide to put the dealers out of business. Not likely.



    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How do you feel about these raids? Are our police forces getting too much like the military? We already have the Un Constiutional National Guard. I don't Know I believe it was a important person who said "better ten guilty go free rather than one innocent be found guilty!"(Not exact quotes) Doesn't this pertain, better to have ten crack houses rather than one innocent man shot in the back? I just can't see justifying these raids.--Mark
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  • rameleni1rameleni1 Member Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is a very good question. I have thought about it before. How would you know if they are really cops or intruders? I think I would end up dead, or going to jail. Anyone kicks, or rams open my door, i'm getting my gun ready in 3 seconds. In that 3 seconds, i'm sure I would be in someones sights. I hear "police" do I believe them?. Even if I do, i'm holding a gun at them, and they are justified to shoot me. I think this is a "no win" situation, and hope it never happens to me.

    Rameleni1
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  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I dont think a forced entry should be allowed unless there is no other possible solution and only with the appropriate amount of inteligence to verify that the person/persons being sought are indeed on the premisess. Stake outs and undercover work are valuable tools that are sometimes ignored for reasons that I don't understand. It would seem to me that 1 such icident where the wrong address is given and an innocent person is killed would be more than enouph to justify the extra man power to do the job correctly and insure the safety of the innocent. I would be in a gun battle if they entered my abode. My dog would surely be their first casualty and that would be enouph for me to justify return fire. I hope Im never placed in the situation.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    rameleni1, I can tell you have never been there. Three seconds is a LONG time during one of these raids. Three seconds is about long enough to get the entry team into every room and have everyone on the floor. And this is usually done when everyone is sound asleep. As brutal as it sounds, it is actually safer this way. The targets don't have time to respond. The cops gain control immediately.

    Which is better, to catch everyone totally off guard, removing any chance for armed response, or knock and announce and give everyone a chance to wake up and gear up to resist violently if they are so inclined?

    If the resident were to wake up and arm himself in time to respond, he would find himself facing officers with Level IIIA or better body armor, Kevlar helmets, maybe even Kevlar masks, and carrying full-auto weapons. Kinda like a Quiznos commercial...an unfair matchup.



    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Suppose "they" before they break your door down holler POLICE and they are not POLICE...one might be just as dead!

    This scenario will -sadly- happen!

    Edited by - michael minarik on 09/09/2002 23:20:54
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  • Harleeman1030Harleeman1030 Member Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If they know the people are in there..Why not wait them out ????
    I mean here you are putting your life on the line either way..
    It just don't make any sense to me breaking in a door to catch them off gaurd ??


    You go in you might get shot you might shoot the wrong person...Let them come out..3:00 am in the morning hell 3 more hours it's daylite..Guy walks out of his house get him..You break in bam bam bam bam either way it's not pretty what can happen



    Harleeman1030@aol.com

    NRA MEMBER
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First build your doors "Ram resistant". Then the fist "bang" wakes you, you arm yourself and dial 911 and report what's going on, 911 will have your address and make a radio call which the team leader will hear. In the meantime, the second "bang" they gain entrance and either your busted cuz your a bad guy or they apologize for the errors of their ways and pay damages. Mistakes will happen but odds are in your favor of your residence NOT being miss ID'd.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    CW: Believe guy lived in Malibu (LA County), but Ventura County Sheriffs snuffed him.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • kgnovumkgnovum Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn - 'm glad there are guys like you out there taking care of business! It's a tough job and you don't get the credit you deserve. Mistakes will always be part of anything "humans" do but they are few, hopefully. Keep up the good work and THANKS - from all of us!
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  • shootinfoolshootinfool Member Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What happened to:POLICE, WE HAVE A SEARCH WARRENT!

    I don't hear "search warrent", whatever is in, is not getting out.
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  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It makes me sick to think of a raid being done on my home. I am currently planning/ designing my house to stop or prevent such a occurence. I have a friend and his dad has built his own Fort Knoxx. He was in some elite military force in Vietnam and went into Cambodia, alot of men were killed and the U.S. denied he was ever there. He went a little crazy and has been building bunkers and stockpiling supplies and weapons since the Vietnam War.
    Somedays I feel sorry for those folks in WACO, land of the free, supposed to be able to live as you wish. But those poor folks were raided by tanks, psychological warfare, teargas and eventually were burned to death for trying to live free. I really think that could of been resolved using other means. I would of felt like a proud American had the U.S. Army sent in an Apache helicopter to defend them against Janet Reno. Maybe the BATF, FBI, and CIA will one day go after the Amish for 'child endangerment' since they make their children work, don't give them politically correct educations, and refuse to use modern electronic devices to support consumerism and the economy. You may laugh but one day it will happen.
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  • lokdok1lokdok1 Member Posts: 383 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would hope that before a raid is performed that enough surveillance is done so that law enforcment is absolutely positive they have the correct address.I think that the level of criminal element has risen enough to merit these raids.We cant afford to treat these scum like the democrats treated the communists.

    If you don't know your rights, you dont't have any
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