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LEO question- Batons

leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
Right now I have two batons that I had to get for the acadamy, but baton trainings over and I've come to the conclusion that I won't carry either of them. A normal old 24" straight baton and a 26" Cosco Expandable Baton. Non of the departments around here allow the PR-24, so I've decided that I'm going to carry an expandable baton, I just can't decide which brand. I was kinda hoping ya'll could help me.

The Cosco is just to poorly made. Its bent, and soft. I just keep straightening it back out but it gets bent again. Real poor quality. A dud.

I was looking at galls and noticed they have a few different brands. ASP, the original is what I'm looking at buying. The 31" electroless nickel one.

But I also saw that there is a ball bearing push button one, forgot the mfg, but it looks neat, don't know if its any good, never seen one.

There is also the pheonix made by ppct. Is super light weight, looks like its poly or something.

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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Comments

  • TrinityScrimshawTrinityScrimshaw Member Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go with the ASP if you must have one, but in 28 years of law Enforcement I have only had to use one twice, and if I had had OC spray then it wouldn't have been needed. One thing good about the ASP if used correclty it can break most vehicle windows. I always liked the PR 24, it could break anything. It made splinters of an ax handle in training. But, than I guess was the problem with it ?

    Trinity +++

    "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Asp with the mirror adapter to look around corners is the only way to go.


    Best!!!

    Rugster
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  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ASP Even though I don't have one because I've never had the training. I carry a straight wooden baton in the car. ASP is a good one.
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just became aware you were a LEO 96 Harley,there more of us around than I thought.


    Stay Safe!!

    Rugster
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  • EducatorEducator Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I really like the ASP...aside from the PR-24 it is probably the most versatile. It is also the only brand of expandible baton that actually holds up to what its supposed to do. (from a former LEO)
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  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Same here rugster. We seem to be in with a bunch of like minded folk as well. Just wish more of them lived in my town. I would be honored to have them as citizens.
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  • TrinityScrimshawTrinityScrimshaw Member Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    96harley,

    From one LEO Harley nut to another

    We are like minded in more ways then one;-)

    Trinity+++



    "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
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  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After many years of seeing officers use various impact weapons against combatives, I can tell you I'm not a big fan of the ASP type baton.

    The only people I've seen it work as advertised on are those that are just somewhat intoxicated and and/or non-committed to the fight. Mentally unbalanced, highly intoxicated or highly motivated people can be struck numerous times without great immediate effect.

    I'll agree that the ASP has a good intimidation factor going for it. Just hearing that metallic SNICK! and having it appear in a flash in the loaded position can defuse a bad situation. But when you come up against someone who's not intimidated and has it in their mind that they're going to hurt you, it comes up short. The rearward balanced ASP's high tip speed is pushed as it's advantage, but in my experience it doesn't make up for the results obtained from the inertia of a straight or side handle baton.

    For a baton to be reliably effective when used against soft target areas it needs both weight and speed. Comparing an ASP to a straight or side handle baton is like getting whipped with a switch compared to getting busted with a paddle. The switch hurts and gets a rational persons attention, but a paddle will rattle anyone all the way to the bone.

    I don't believe in unecessary use of force. But I've learned not to mess around if the situation requires it or you'll end up getting yourself hurt. There's never an excuse for hitting a man softly.
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    TXS you bring up a very good point,and seems to be an well Experienced one.I believe that is why we like the ASPs.They seem to cause less harm than the heavy ones.I still believe if used correctly the ASP,or any expandable Baton will stop a serious confrontation.As long as you hit your target at some of the points of the body were taught it will be effective.Even the side of the hand will do it but requires you to become closer,which is a bigger risk for the Officer.The expandable Baton will do what it is intended to do,Break collar Bones,crush Knee caps etc.In hopes it will not inflict more harm than necessary.That is one of the advantages of the lighter Baton,in hopes to do less harm than the older fiberglass or wooden Batons.That and compactness is what made it so popular today.But Im sure they wont last near as long as the old ones.I have one hear a retired now Officer carried for his whole career,he gave it to me 9yrs ago.I keep it by the door,if that thing could talk,it came from the days they tell me about when Officers planned on fighting the prisoner every time before he took him in.

    Stay Safe!!

    Rugster
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  • Matt45Matt45 Member Posts: 3,185
    edited November -1
    I've had a couple of expandable batons, and both turned into real pieces of crap, the third I bought was an ASP an I've had it for the last 3 years or so- Well worth the $70.00 or so I paid for it and the holster. I have a tactical question though- Is nickel plated really the way you want to go? One more shiny thing to reflect light in my mind.

    Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ditto,GO ASP. PR-24 is a killer and bone breaker Not for someone inexperienced in black arts ,personaly I dont like batons exept
    in defense only situations ,never to be used in Unarmed subjects.
    There I recomend a good pair of gloves and knoledge of dissabling
    points in the body,(Black arts).

    A good "master" never hurts more than he has too ...You get "Respect" wherever you go.....You Turn "Untochable...."

    Just Know how to back it up.....

    JD



    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    I carry a 26" ASP expandable, mainly because I have to. I have never hit anyone with it. Pepper spray seems to work better and you don't have to haul the moron to the hospital afterward, and the use of force review is much easier.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn, be careful with the chem stuff some persons may have extreme sensitivity to it, can go into anaphylactic shock and die....
    Quite a lot of cases with pepper sprays...

    Others can be pump full of the stuff and will spit it back at you
    ,that is troble in the making.... so from time to time doose yourself with some as to be less sensitive to the stuff (Just in case).

    (Use also as "last resource") .....

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    No one has ever died from pepper. Some have died after an application of pepper, but the cause of death is usually a cocaine overdose.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is good to hear that anaphylactic shock scared me I was afraid they would start making us carry Eppy shots!!

    Rugster
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Benadril ,atropine or any antystaminic will do......

    But has to be doctor administered .....

    For the fatality you are right ,I have never seen one BEFORE aplicating the pepper, usualy is after it .......


    JD


    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Our instructor on pepper spray told us that no one has ever actually died from it. He said the worst thing that can happen is that the person panics and hyperventalates. But other than that, he said that the deaths after pepper spray are usually caused by something else such as an OD or heart attack caused by a drug.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I'll have to put that ASP baton on my list. I was unaware that it had such a good reputation.

    And just thought I'd throw this in. We watched a video in class recorded from a car cam, this guy, not on drugs or anything, just back yard pit bull tough. Went for the officer's gun during a struggle, and already having it deployed, he struck the perp several times (lethal blows) to the head and temple areas. The guy bleeding so back that he couldn't see thru the blood in his eye's still pursued the officer. Some civilians at a near by rest stop assisted the officer in detaining the guy till the calvary arrived. Turned out the guy was transporting a whole trunk full of dope, and had a gun under the front seat. The guy was also a golden gloves fighter, and after getting out of the hospital for a fractured skull, the prosecutor decided that they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute for attempted capital murder, so he got time for the weed, did like 6 months and is back out there.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    AWWWW ! its like a gun shot the bullet does not kill you ,you die of hart failure due to bleeding .......

    Well its not the pepper its the drug that gets lethal in the system as the guy is dosed with the pepper stuff.....

    AWWW ! Whats first the egg or the chicken .......

    HALT ! do you use drugs ! if so say ! or pepper spray may be used agaist you .....

    JD



    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
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  • EducatorEducator Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The key word to all of this is training...don't make the mistake so many officers do and let the training stop at the academy. The asp is only effective if used properly and the proper use and training will help you in a lawsuit as well. You have picked a tough profession...Wear your badge well.

    "When in doubt...whip it out!"
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