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Starter Rifle recomendations?
Palantirion
Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
I live in the unfortunate state of Kalifornia, and I'm interested in getting my first rifle. I'm looking for something with relatively inexpensive ammo, good ballistics and a good price-to-quality ratio. I'm looking for something I can have fun with at a range, or hunt with up north.
My local gun shop recommended Remington's 700 Police, or an M1-A if I wanted to go semi-auto. Both are heavy (compared to various hunting rifles I handled) but "bob" said their MOA (did I get that right?) was 1 and 1.5, respectively - which is better than comparably-priced hunting rifles. Weight is an issue, but not as important as quality or accuracy.
Thanks in advance for you help
My local gun shop recommended Remington's 700 Police, or an M1-A if I wanted to go semi-auto. Both are heavy (compared to various hunting rifles I handled) but "bob" said their MOA (did I get that right?) was 1 and 1.5, respectively - which is better than comparably-priced hunting rifles. Weight is an issue, but not as important as quality or accuracy.
Thanks in advance for you help
Comments
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
How does the .270 compare with .308 in terms of availability and impact?
www.ebsart.com
1) This will sound silly, but what's the difference (advantage/disadvantage) between "long action" and "short action"?
2) I'm looking at the Savage Arms website right now. Why are the 11-series rifles magazines' only hold 4 rounds? Can you get 10-round mags for them? Is there a practical problem with having more than four rounds ready?
www.ebsart.com
400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
better.In theory,short and stiff should be more accurate.Also,the short action should feed better...in theory.
In the real world,speed of bolt manipulation,accuracy,and weight will not change that much...until you become very experienced.The Savage long action has certain advantages..i.e.,you can load the bullet out enough to actually get close to the rifling...unlike the last 4 short Remingtons I measured..the bullet seated deep enough to actually feed thru the magazine,the closest measurement to the rifling was .060..the longest was .190..these being new rifles.
Normally,.010 is all the distance off the rifling you want.
Of course,this brings us to the next step....handloading..I am not sure that is legal anymore in the left coast...
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
p.s. Reloading is still legal here, smart *
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What part of Kal do you live?
John
I might not always tell you the truth, but I will never lie to you!
I reeeeeeaaaaaly like the feel of the Remington 700 w/M24 barrel. It's relatively light and very balanced, and it has excellent craftmanship. Unfortunately it's also around $900, about $400 more than a cheaper Savage. I also liked the Winchester 70 Coyote 308, which has a crowned barrel and 11-1 twist, but I prefer the kevlar stock and floating barrel of the Remington. Of course the Winchester is $300 less than the Rem.
I DO like the Savage's detachable magazine; I guess because I'm more used to pistols and prefer weapons with a 'combat' feel more than a 'target' feel. On that note, I've also been considering an M1-A. Mostly because of the increased ammo capacity and the semi-auto action. On the other hand, it won't be as accurate or have the range of the Remington.
My current thoughts are: Either get the Remington or a Savage, depending on my checkbook, for target use and later pick up a carbine to satisfy my semi-auto craving. My question to all of you is this: Is the Remington REALLY worth the money, or should I step down to the Winchester or Savage?
p.s. I'd probably get a 3-12 Leupold scope regardless of which rifle I purchase.
www.ebsart.com
I have heard that the triggers are not great, but the one on my rifle is smooth. I think an adjustable trigger might have been dropped in the rifle.
"Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
-Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Will270win@nraonline.com
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
I live in OC also. Drop me an e-mail and we can go to some of the better gun shops around and look at rifles in real calibers (like .30-06). Seriously, drop me a line and we can go shoot or something and discuss the merits of the various arms available. I do believe the savage to be one of the best bargains available today.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
The Savage certainly does seem to be a great bargain, but that damn Remington . . . I could feel the difference. I'm really having a tough time making a choice between the Mustang GT and the Z06, so to speak.
p.s. I like the idea of .308 because of availability, but I know 30-06 is pretty easy to come by too, and has a little better ballistics at longer ranges. Is there any serious advantage of one cartridge over the other?
www.ebsart.com
I don't know why GB doesn't show e-mail addresses but you can e-mail by clicking on the envelope icon next to the person you want to mail to.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
GB's boards are interesting indeed, I can't seem to edit my replies (which sucks if you care about typos) and I am not sure to which "envelope" you are referring.
p.s. my email is earl@ebsart.com (the addy in the previous post had a comma stuck to it )
www.ebsart.com
First is a face in profile and this is your profile - click on it and it will tell you things like occupation, hobbies, etc. the second icon is an envelope, click here will bring up an e-mail window where you can e-mail the person clicked. It will not show their address but will send mail. The third icon is a pencil and eraser - allows you to edit your posts 4th icon (a bent arrow) allows a reply with quote5th is a trash can where you can delete your entire posting.Hope this helps.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
www.ebsart.com
"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
-Blade Runner
My two cents worth.
1) You want this rifle to do more than one job; that means compromises because the optimim configurations aren't the same for the different tasks. Frankly, if you mean to take this rifle very far afield hunting, some of the target features can be a real liability. It makes sense to lean toward the hunting configuration first. Initially you will want to become pretty familiar with your hunting setup.
2) You can configure the gun differently for different purposes; for example, the obvious one is to have a couple of different scopes. Start with a good hunting scope, and then shop around for a target model.
3 I have both blind and box magazine rifles. I really can't say the box is so much more convenient that I would ignore a good deal on a blind magazine gun.
4) Buy good ammo. Try different brands, develop some standard tests, and keep track of results and lot numbers. This way you will find what works best, and get a "baseline" for performance. To do this right will take enough shooting that the cost of outdated milsurp 7.62x51 NATO will be irrelevant (unless you shoot a WHOLE LOT!).
5) The .22 LR carbine will provide cheap practice and also serve your rapid fire plinking needs, with one proviso: The average trigger on a .22 carbine is abysmal, so bad that there is really no point in trying to be accurate with one. So get one with a good trigger, or plan on modification. It is actually not at all difficult in some rifles. The Ruger 10/22 has a trigger pull designed more to deter litigation than to shoot accurately, but can be modified acceptably with drop in parts, for example.
6) I don't think the relative availability and cost of milsurp should affect the .308Win/30-.06 issue for reasons stated above.
As for the differences, the .308 was an offshoot of the 7.62x51 NATO development program, in which the goal was to obtain 30-.06 performance from a smaller, lighter cartridge for military purposes. (Unless you plan on humping a sh**load of ammo around, its not important for hunting or target shooting.) To do so essentially requires a "hotter" load to achieve the same results, and the .308 Win is essentially an early development in the process that met performance standards but generated pressures in excess of the military specifications. Commercial .308Win is mostly pretty hot, but a lot of 30.-06 is loaded with older guns in mind. With a good modern rifle you can shoot the hottest commercial 30-.06, and handloading will definitely permit higher performance than you can get from .308Win.
On the other hand, while the 30.-06 does all the .308Win does and then some, the difference may not be enough to determine what rifle to buy. I discount the differences between long and short actions because they don't amount to much, perhaps a few ounces of weight and a fraction of a second cycling time. Also the relative cost of milsurp ammo for the reason stated above. If you reload, the cost of components is similar. Unless you need to shoot 220 gr bullets, or need the extra range, the performance difference isn't that great. The relative cost to you of ammo could be a big factor if you buy good stuff. But I think a good deal on a suitable rifle, or a rifle I just plain liked in either caliber would decide it for me.
Guess I put in a nickel's worth!
redcedars
I guess it does make more sense to start with a less-expensive hunting rifle, then get a heavier target rifle later on - after I knew what features suit me better.
Another thought: What about getting a Savage AND a M1-A? Here in CA the M1-A is the only semi-auto rifle still legal. With Davis possibly getting re-elected mabey I should think about picking up an M1 before they too are outlawed ... feedback?
www.ebsart.com
"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
-Blade Runner
p.s. I'm not giving up on a .308 or 30-06, I just figure .22 ammo is cheap and would be good to practice with (as per redcedar's suggestion).
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"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
-Blade Runner
The gene pool needs clorine.
1.A near miss is still a miss!
2.Before I got married I spent half my money on women and guns,THE REST I WASTED!
3.Wasn't me!
4.KILL EM' ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT EM' OUT!
glen e nuinez
glen e nuinez
Whichever version I get I'm planning to get an EER 2x or 3x scope so I can swap the scope with my .44 Super Redhawk. With the assumption that I later purchase a "real" rifle with it's own dedicated 2 1/2-9x non-EER scope, does anyone think EER scope-swapping between the Marlin and the Ruger is a bad idea?
www.ebsart.com
"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
-Blade Runner