In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Garage sale guns
searcher5
Member Posts: 13,511
I buy quite a few guns at garage sales and from private individuals. I am always goosey( despite the sellers assurance) that some of these guns may be stolen. Quite often it is either a buy-it-fast-or-lose -it-deal, so there is no time to run a check before purchase. What is your advice about checking before offering it for resale? Is there anywhere to check this quickly, or is this just the chance you take? Your thoughts on this, please. Thanks, Dan'l
Comments
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
You may get by for a long time, but it only takes getting hammered ONCE by the BATF to get your attention. Since about three-fourths of the FFLs that once existed are no more, the BATF has more time to nail "unlicensed dealers." And they are doing so with astonishing regularity. All it takes is for one of your friends, neighbors or co-workers to call the BATF snitch line and you are had.
License or no, you MUST record the seller's identity, address, date of birth and physical descriptors from his state-issued picture ID card. That is for your protection. If the seller seems reluctant to provide the necessary data, back off. It ain't worth it.
In Texas, if one is in the business of buying and selling any second-hand property valued at $25 or more, AND if the property proves to be stolen, AND if the buyer did not record the seller's information, the law presumes that the buyer knew the property was stolen when he bought it.
About the only way to check a gun for stolen is to have a friendly police officer run it through NCIC for you. No NCIC want is not a clean bill of health, either. Lots of guns are stolen from people who did not bother to record the serial number. Lots of guns made before 1968 have no serial numbers.
So, be careful.
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
I used to cover this when I was teaching the Concealed Handgun License course.
If you are going to carry a gun, make DARN SURE YOU KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM. Preferably, it will be one you bought new in a shop, and for which you have a receipt.
In Texas, a police officer contacting a licensee had the authority to disarm the licensee for cause. It is a rare officer that can get another person's gun in his hands and not run it through NCIC/TCIC. This is not the time to find out it was stolen in a burglary before you got it.
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
Assuming that your license comes through in your life time, you'll have to log all of those guns in your "bound book". You'd better know exactly where they came from and have records to back it up. Guns in dealers inventory can't simply pop up out of thin air, they had to have come from somewhere. You've clearly stated that they are your INVENTORY and not your personal guns so you can't list yourself in the acquisition portion of the bound book. You'll have to list a name and address of anyone you aquired a firearms from who was not licensed. If he was licensed you need to list his license number. I'd stop visiting those garage sales for a while. Pretty soon SOMEONE is going to wise up to what you are doing and call the police or the BATF. You usually see the same faces at these sales and I'm sure that these folks notice you, "the guy who always buys all of those used guns". It takes only one phone call to ruin your life.
Mark T. Christian
From what a dealer told me, you could also sell your entire collection once (at one time) per year. So, for example, if you had several guns you could run them through an auction house at the same time and sell more than five.
While these are not laws, they are what the ATF says, from what I have heard.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
http://isthisgunstolen.com/
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
I think the ATF's strong recommendation is if you sell over five guns a year, they think you should have a license.
This is a moot point. The number of licensed dealers has recently been reduced by 75%; even if the ATF made such a recommendation, it would be against their interest and counter to political savvy to enforce it.
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
Edited by - DancesWithSheep on 09/30/2002 23:31:34
even if the ATF made such a recommendation, it would be against their interest and counter to political savvy to enforce it.
[/quote]
Face facts. They have to have some reasonably standard way to respond to a reasonably standard question. I'm sure they probably get AT LEAST half a dozen calls a year asking, "when do I need a license", or, "shouldn't he have a license"? They can't simply tell the caller, "Duh, we don't know". They have a pat answer they give to people who ask this question, and it is along the lines of urging people who sell more than five guns per year to get a license.
I seriously doubt that if a person were to sell 6 guns in one year and four in the next, the ATF would say anything. Particularly considering there are plenty of states that don't require any record of transaction on the sale or purchase of a firearm. How would the ATF really know? I know of a few "collectors" who travel the midwest gunshow circut and most probably "sell" over five guns per year, truth be told. But because the sales go without any paperwork, who really knows how many they sell? Sure, I can think of plenty of people on this board who would jump up and down and insist they need FFL licenses. But the fact is, they set up at the same shows, year after year, and never get bothered by the ATF. And they are really reasonably open about what they are doing.
However, I do believe if you were to call an ATF office and ask them when a person needs a license to sell firearms, they will give you some out-of-the-box response along the lines of, if you sell more than five guns per year, you probably need a license.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
I think maybe we are on the same side on this point...
I know the viewpoint of those on the east and west coast is different than the midwest. In my state, it's not uncommon to see the same "collectors" set-up show after show selling without a license. There are several "collectors" who frequently set-up and sell at midwest shows, and they do it at virtually every show.
Now, with some of them, it's obvious they have areas of specialization, with others it's just a hodge-podge of guns. There is one guy who, every show I go to, can be seen wheeling a customized dolly full of guns up and down the isles. He has several rifles and who knows how many handguns all on this cart. And he has customized this cart especially for hauling guns around. He never rents a table. Every show, he pays the door admission price, checks his guns in through the same sherriff's officer who always does security at the show, and wheels his cart up and down the isles, selling to whoever might be interested. I don't have any idea how many guns he sells away from the shows. I do know several of the "dealers" who regularly rent tables make some nasty comments about him under their breath. But that's just because he is getting around paying the table rent and taking business away from them. He has done this for several years now, and is quite open about it.
I am really surprised when I do here the infrequent news reports of someone getting busted for selling guns without a license. When these reports do draw attention, there are usually some extenuating circumstances around them, such as drugs or full auto stuff.
Myself, I hate selling guns. I can't hoard enough. But I tell you what I'm going to do with all my guns. The last big gunshow before they start requiring a background check and FFL transfer on all gun purchases, that is, just before they finally do away with the private sale of firearms on the Federal level, I'm going to sell every gun I have and make a killing (killing=huge profit). After that point, I'm never going to buy or sell another gun. I'll deny that I own any guns, because I won't. I'll be a completely reformed ex-gun nut. Just the way they want me to be.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
Maybe the answer is...you're not.
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.