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Anniversary of 9/11

HighNoonHighNoon Member Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
As a new member, I don't wish to appear as though I'm patronizing this group when I sincerely mean to say that I wish all of you and your families remain safe over the next few days as we approach the one year anniversary of the cowardly act.

Remain vigilant and let's get through this to be able to move on to better things. Let us not forget and let each of us contibute what we can to make the world safer for our children.

Take care.

HN
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Comments

  • faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you for your words of hope and encouragement...
    Your feelings are no doubt echoed thoughout our nation.
    Pacem.
    Faldum
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Back at ya HighNoon. Let's hope this "orange alert" is just cautionary.



    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    9-11 is a national disgrace. I feel nothing but embarrassment and contempt. The heads of our intelligence community were guilty of a criminal negligence so profound as to border on treason; I find them no less horrific and no less despicable than those they failed to uncover, much less spoil. If I see another fireman with a flag I will puke. Calling a "hero" ANYONE wearing a uniform or a badge or doing what they're paid to do or being in the wrong place at the wrong time so dilutes the term as to make it meaningless; the few real heroes of 9-11 are turning over in their graves. And the absolute bottomless greed and self-pity displayed by many 9-11 victims and surviving families is so shameless and so rewarded and so exploited by the media as to remove any inclination I have towards caring...about any of it.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • Harleeman1030Harleeman1030 Member Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yep my kids dad was killed on Sept. 4th 2001.They are getting no free ride thru college me and their mother are still paying for pre-pay fund...The trucker that pulled out in front of him and other cars was stoned and his company let him drive with a bad record.we are not suing the state of florida because it let a trucker on the road with a bad record..But my kids will say the pledge when they want...Pray before we go to bed before we eat and remember their dad for the man he was.. not what the media makes of him...They have money because the dad owned the company.In fast the lawyer knows if he pulls any underhand BS lawsuit the mother will fire his butt..My kids lost a hero that day....I help them hang picturs all thru our house it does not bother me one bit..But his kids will not grow up thinking he died in vain because 7 days later 9-11 hit...

    Harleeman1030@aol.com

    NRA MEMBER


    Edited by - harleeman1030 on 09/10/2002 19:16:20

    Edited by - harleeman1030 on 09/10/2002 19:23:49
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  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OUCH!! Dances thaose are pretty strong statements. I agree that this day is a little out of control, with the commercialism, the greed, the well they are getting this what about me? But to say you don't care at all? More than 2000 people lost their life and more than 2000 families lost a loved one. How can you not care about that? My Grandpa passed away a year ago and to honor his memory the family got together, a little less than 130 people, on Memorial day to pay our respects and have a day of rememberance. Is that wrong? for a group of people to get together to REMEMBER. My Heart goes out to anyone who has lost someone, because if you have lose someone you know what it feels like. I think we need to be bigger than the propaganda of 911, don't play into the commercialism, but not to care at all? I just think that is very callus.
    And for the Firemen and Police not being heros I laugh, and cry. People who have fought in wars protected mine and your freedom died for my way of life WERE PAID TO BE IN THAT WAR, ARE YOU SAYING THEY ARE NOT HEROS? I really think you need to reevaluate your stance on this matter, and if you take a step back and don't feel differently I feel very sorry for you and I will say a prayer to have GOD soften your heart
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Harleeman: Right On. God bless you and your family.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mkirkland: The point is why do we collectively care more about the victims of 9-11 than your grandfather or Harleeman's kids' father or any of the other hundreds of thousands of nameless others killed by accidents every year? As for heroes, merely wearing a uniform and dying while wearing it does not make you a hero. Tell any recipient of the CMOH or Navy Cross or Silver Star that he is no more worthy of the name than a soldier run over by a 6x6. Tell the guys on Flight 93 that they are no more heroes than a Port Authority cop who simply got crushed by debris. What separates heroes in uniform from anyone else in uniform is deliberation, volition and sacrifice. Merely being present and/or being in the wrong place at the wrong time is not the same thing.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In my humble opinion, any person willing to put on a uniform in the military is a hero, regardless! ANd for the Police and Firemen the very first rule when showing up at a scene is Self Protection. That is if you don't think it's safe don't proceed. So anybody who got out of their engine or car to help threw that rule out and in my eyes became a hero. Everyone probably won't agree, but those people put their life on the line for other people therefore they are heros. As for caring more for these people that died more than my Grandpa or Harley's kids dad, I didn't say that. But what you said is you don't care.
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did two tours in Vietnam. I was not wounded and I did not receive any decoration for valor. Please do not embarrass me by calling me a hero, especially in front of men who I knew were.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • HighNoonHighNoon Member Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, I didn't mean to stir any anger. I meant that I was deeply saddened by the loss of human life, whether it be janitor, mailman, fireman, business executive, etc. I felt the same sadness last month when visiting the USS Arizona Memorial.

    It's truly unfortunate that the people of this world can't work together for a better existence. I'm convinced that there will never be world peace, the older I get. And yes, we all have different definitions of hero. If someone profits by someone else's misery then they deserve whatever comes their way.

    The people in the building that day may not have been "heroes" in the traditional sense, but they were certainly innocent victims. And the men running into that burning building when everyone else was trying to get out are heroes in my dictionary.

    May we all have and experience heroes in our lifetimes.
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  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No you weren't wounded or decorated, is that what it takes? Just being there willing to be wounded or killed isn't enough? Sorry Dances you haven't swayed me, much respect to all of you war Veterans!
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mkirkland: "Just being there willing to be wounded or killed" is what is called 'duty', not heroism. That you are unable to make this distinction is understandable, for it is obvious you have no experience of either. The fact that the draft has ended does not change this. That one now volunteers for service is not of itself an act of heroism, any more than not volunteering is an act of cowardice. That such service may subsequently occasion an act of sacrifice or heroism is always a possibility, but it is not a concomitant of having volunteered, any more than deciding to go to medical school makes you a doctor.

    I suppose that if you set the bar low enough, anyone can jump over. If you need to make everyone in uniform your hero, so be it. Know, however, that those in uniform know the difference even if you don't, and that by so doing you demean those among them who are truly deserving of the name.


    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm a veteran, and yes I see what you are trying to say and yes I agree with you. I guess I was a little too vague about my definition, and we did get off the subject. I think the men who were at the Twin Towers who put their lives on the line are heros. You said they weren't and that is what I disagree with.
    For you to belittle me for having the opinion I do kind of strikes a nerve. Read my posts here and think about what I've said a hero is those people who one put their lives on the line for others and two those people who died in defense of my freedom. I know I made a few blanket statements about all the military being heros that wasn't the point I was trying to get across. I chalk that up to frustration, because I served in the Army and in no way am I a hero. But the point is your comments about not caring at all and that the heros of 911 weren't heros I just couldn't let that stand without my two cents. So here it is my two cents.
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mkirkland: I was not trying to belittle you. You certainly have the right to believe whatever you like, and this forum is not the place for finding anything worthy of undoing your personal world view. I was simply stating my own beliefs and the reasons for them. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
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