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Is our democracy going down the toilet?
ElMuertoMonkey
Member Posts: 12,898
Okay, so our last president was appointed by the Supreme Court, Texas Democrats have fled the state (twice now) to defeat votes they could not win, and Republicans have spearheaded a recall vote rather than wait for the next election for governor in California.
What has happened to our sense of democracy? While none of the above is remotely illegal, I'd say, to a certain degree, the ethics behind them are questionable to say the least.
Democrats in Texas, being outnumbered, simply flee to prevent a quorum and therefore defeat any measures they find objectionable. And while procedurally legal, it circumvents the whole notion of democracy wherein the majority vote rules.
The recall vote, initiated by Republicans, isn't so much about repairing state government as punishing the guy in office. Sure, Grey Davis is a moron and a loser, but he was elected and that's the whole point of our system of government: if you don't like the guy, suck it up and wait until you can vote him out the next time around.
In my opinion, it's this whole right-now, my-way-or-the-highway attitude that's infesting our society that is responsible for these circus sideshows. And, sooner or later, this behavior will become the norm as every two-bit lawyer wrangles a procedural loophole out of their hat to press their agenda upon the public at the expense of what little service we could get out of government in the first place.
What has happened to our sense of democracy? While none of the above is remotely illegal, I'd say, to a certain degree, the ethics behind them are questionable to say the least.
Democrats in Texas, being outnumbered, simply flee to prevent a quorum and therefore defeat any measures they find objectionable. And while procedurally legal, it circumvents the whole notion of democracy wherein the majority vote rules.
The recall vote, initiated by Republicans, isn't so much about repairing state government as punishing the guy in office. Sure, Grey Davis is a moron and a loser, but he was elected and that's the whole point of our system of government: if you don't like the guy, suck it up and wait until you can vote him out the next time around.
In my opinion, it's this whole right-now, my-way-or-the-highway attitude that's infesting our society that is responsible for these circus sideshows. And, sooner or later, this behavior will become the norm as every two-bit lawyer wrangles a procedural loophole out of their hat to press their agenda upon the public at the expense of what little service we could get out of government in the first place.
Comments
And the supreme court didnt pick the president, the american voters did, just because a few idiots down in florida dont know how to use a ballot. They should be voting in the first place.. [}:)]
________________
Heston for prez.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
Is our democracy going down the toilet?
As someone (whose name I don't remember) once said, a democracy can only last until people realize that they can vote themselves benefits out of the government coffers.
"Kingship (arising from a natural despotism or monarchy) degenerates into Tyranny. Aristocracy degenerates into Oligarchy. Democracy degenerates into Mob-rule. No clearer proof of the truth of what I say could be obtained than by a careful observation of the natural origin, genesis, and decadence of these several forms of government. For it is only by seeing distinctly how each of them is produced that a distinct view can also be obtained of its growth, zenith, and decadence, and the time, circumstance, and place in which each of these may be expected to recur. This method I have assumed to be especially applicable to the roman constitution, because its origin and growth have from the first followed natural causes." -- Polybius, The Histories of Polybius, Book VI: The Cycles of Political Constitutions (146 BCE)
Jacqueline
www.gratuitouslylongdomainname.com
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants and the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)
-How many times have I told you that whenever I hear the words "civil rights attourney", I reach for my glock? How many times have I told you that when I hear the words "civil rights attourney", I make sure my AR-15 is oiled?-
~Dr. Savage~
When they come to get your GUNS, make sure to give them the AMMO first!!!
-How many times have I told you that whenever I hear the words "civil rights attorney", I reach for my glock? How many times have I told you that when I hear the words "civil rights attorney", I make sure my AR-15 is oiled?-
~Dr. Savage~
Right on Tesla!!! Hang 'em. 20 years ago fleeing their obligation to thier constituents would have been met with unending scorn and shame, but now their viewed as hero's by some. It doesn't bode well for the future of the greatest country on earth.
New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
Yes Gore did win in Florida, but who cares. They're all politicians.
Are their lips moving, they're lying.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
The people elected President Bush. It was ALgory that started the first legal procedure. The republicans just countered.
In Texas, its the democraps using a legal, yet less than moral move to make a mockery of the system.
The CA recall is being done by the people. The recall procedures are in the CA State Constitution. The people do not want to wait until the scum's term is up, they want him out before he causes any more damage. The originator of the recall needed x amount of signatures to start the recall, the people supplied more than enough in record breaking time. Davis will not be actually recalled until the people vote him out on the upcoming ballot.
Beach, if a state does not have a recall provision in its constitution, they cannot do a recall. Also, the people must vote it in, they just go a do it without the consent of the people.
NOT a demo-crazy. We are close to mob rule but not quite yet.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO--REMEMBER GOLIAD!!!
Benjamin Franklin.
You folks really want a democracy? You're getting one. A system where the majority can vote away your individual rights. It's pretty clear that the "modern educational system," which everyone pretends to hate, has brainwashed more people than I thought possible. And that they are enhancing its power, just by this thread alone.
First, read the Constitution, then read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers. If you can tell me that this was ever intended to be a democracy after that, good luck to you!
[Has anyone considered suing the federal government on 10th amendment grounds? The federal goverment has no constitutional basis for mandating speed limits, DUI levels, education programs, welfare spending, and hundreds of other wasteful, intrusive programs and agendas.[/font=Comic Sans MS][/size=4][/blue]
Remember Ruby Ridge.
I think the 10th amendment became obsolete with the amendment that changed everything, that you did not mention-the 14th amendment. That is the amendment that took us off the "blue print". The 14th amendment is atributed as being the amendment that protects our rights, but the reality is, it only places in the hands of the federal government the power to decide what rights we can and can not have, and how much or how little we can enjoy. The 14th amendment is what made the constitution worthless, with respect to federal powers, and rights.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
I never said that I was against the recall or that it was illegal. And a lot of folks here seem to think that it's okay so long as it's applied only to Democrats but don't even think about how p!$$ed they be if it happened to a Republican. And it's this myopic, short-term view, in my opinion, that's gonna get us all in trouble.
In spirit, if not necessarily the letter of the law, a candidate who wins office should serve his or her full term barring criminal conduct. And while being an ignoramus is not the best thing in the world, it certainly isn't criminal. Because we don't like the person doesn't mean we should use every legalistic loophole and every trivial procedure to remove him from office. Hell, I don't care too much for how Bush is running things (Patriot Acts, tax cuts for the rich, foreign policy), but he got the presidency and should serve his full term without a bunch of bottom-feeding special-interest lawyers trying to remove him without an election.
So if you applaud these current actions because it's affecting a Democrat, remember that turnabout is fair play. So don't be too angry when it happens to a Republican.
Both will take money from Corporations to sponsor a Bill.
Neither is working or thinking of this country in 50 years.
Quick question to prove it.
How are all the poor California people going to eat and live without oil?
They aren't. Growth is not good when you are not going to have means to support them. We can't keep writing off the National Debt to keep this country going. As our factories leave we are offering less to other countries to trade.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
You are right. And, as long as these two parties resort to unethical attacks on each other, and continue to teach the public to do the same rather than discuss and solve real problems, it will continue. I have great distain for both parties these days, and the low lifes, and children they run for office.
Measure twice, cut once.
Empty the clip!
The United States of America is a Representative Republic.
NOT a demo-crazy. We are close to mob rule but not quite yet.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO--REMEMBER GOLIAD!!!
Grow,
Would you mind explaining the difference for us. I'm hazy at the moment.
Thanks.
Regards,
VOTE LIBERTARIAN, Send a message!!, DON'T VOTE FOR THE LESSOR OF 2 EVILS.
Democracy--A State in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them rather than by elected representatives.
Republic--A State in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
It would seem to me that is becoming more like a Democracy alright.
When I was in school(many years ago)I was taught that we are a Nation of Laws. They were there to protect you from a Mob with shall we say strong and loud ideas.
Now day's you don't like a law--go find you a friendly Federal Judge an have it ruled Unconstitional.
This is where our State's or our Federal Representatives should have the backbone to tell such Judges where to stick it.
They-these judges- are not in the business to write OR unwrite laws.
ALL IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO--REMEMBER GOLIAD!!!
oh yeah....ARIELLE........I forgot.....we don't teach that stuff in school anymore.
There is no decline in the democracy but the republic is surely in shambles.
Republic..Representive Democracy...Based on the Constitution as a rule of law..99 Coyotes cannot eat the one rabbit..Because Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are Inalienable RIGHTS...
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
Would you mind explaining the difference for us.
America is not a democracy but a federal republic. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands..."
A democracy is a government in which citizens vote directly to decide on issues (such as the democratic government of ancient Athens). True democracies are generally not practical on a large scale.
A republic is a government in which citizens elect officials to represent them in enacting laws and in voting on important issues (such as the ancient Roman republic).
In a federal government, the central government shares power with a number of smaller, local governments.
Jacqueline
www.gratuitouslylongdomainname.com
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants and the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)
He would of done a fine job in Washington. A rich businessman has no need to deepen his pockets, he owns everything. Politicians get paid a little and grab hand outs to make decisions.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36