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Check this out. Sounds like slammer time
mudge
Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
I sent this guy an email asking if he really meant to list this as an "assault rifle" as that would indicate that it was, in fact, a
Class III firearm.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=24613248
Here's his answer:
"Actually yes and no. The only thing missing from this weapon is the "auto sear" which sits in front of the hammer, which I will ship to the winning bidder if requested. Because I did not yet get the Class III license and pay the tax stamp I did not install the final component to make this weapon fully automatic... however is does indeed have full auto everything else (selector switch, trigger group, hammer, etc.....)"
Does this sound as illegal to you as it does to me?
Mudge the suspicious
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!<BR>
Class III firearm.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=24613248
Here's his answer:
"Actually yes and no. The only thing missing from this weapon is the "auto sear" which sits in front of the hammer, which I will ship to the winning bidder if requested. Because I did not yet get the Class III license and pay the tax stamp I did not install the final component to make this weapon fully automatic... however is does indeed have full auto everything else (selector switch, trigger group, hammer, etc.....)"
Does this sound as illegal to you as it does to me?
Mudge the suspicious
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!<BR>
Comments
I really don't think you should have posted this as you just fingered this guy to the ATFE and he will likely be very very mad. You should of corrected his lack of knowledge on the possession of the pieces and not posted his email. You just helped prosecute him.
Never mind it's a 56's, There not the ones.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/viewitem.asp?item=24614692
Good thing I don't need to understand your laws.. =o)
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.
Do you really think that anyone stupid enough to install the full auto parts and have the sear for the same weapon and then advetise it in any way(e-mail) deserves a break?
It folks like him that give gun owners a bad name.
If he told Mudge he has probably told every body he knows (you can bet this isnt the only place he has tried to sell that gun.
Odds are that the ATF already knows about it and is just waiting for it to sell so they can bust the seller and the buyer when he takes pocession of the sear and the firearm.
Nope, Mudge didnt do anything worng by posting that info the seller sent him.
He ask a legitimate questiona ad got an answer...
I personally am glad he posted it here, what if I had bid on that gun and unknowinly recieved it and the sear and gotten busted?
Nope, thanks Mudge, for potentially saving one of us from going to jail.
JuJu(my opinion, others may vary)
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I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
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The AR-15 was so easy to convert to F/A at one time that the BTAF urged congress to ban possession of the F/A parts and weapon, saying it showed intent ... thats how military contractor/supplier Drasen got busted back in the 70's.
This AK isn't drilled for the auto sear anyway! (the dreaded 3rd hole) The hole alone is enough to show intent, even if you don't have the proper F/A bolt carrier guide rails installed or any of the F/A parts!
If what your saying about the possession of F/A parts and a semi-auto weapon are illegal, then how do people get by with buying AK, G3, FAL parts kits which are all F/A and a semi-auto receiver? Why aren't all these people busted? The line is crossed when F/A parts are modified to work in F/A mode in a semi-auto weapon.
While the seller sounds mis-informed about constitutes a class III weapon, he's not crossing any lines!
Please study up before pointing fingers!
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... If you don't, you'll find any excuse.
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
Agreed. Personally, not something I'd ever do. I was surprised to see Mudge post this.
Other freedoms are IN COURT NOW and under attack. Click to read latest report.
At least not yet!
Would not doubt that the Boys are watching who it goes to.
walte
There is NO mention of a certain kind of gun.
Mark Christian is never around when you need him...
Some guns were sold or obtained that were EASY to convert,, then,, regulations changed things like the AUG latch, HK receiver pin, etc.
The AR was easy to convert at one time but they changed something on the receiver that required a degree of machining, LEGAL at that time to convert and register. I'd bet the AK for sale is old enough to be easily converted,, but it will NEVER happen legally. When they banned new Machine Guns by individuals in the US this feature was no longer as desirable.
My only question is,,, hummmm,, what is the status of these "easily converted" firearms now? I do not think they are any different than other semi's,, if you already own them in semi auto. The value of these firearms is more because of two things,, people who want to convert to full auto,, illegally, because there is NO way for an individual to register a new machine gun. The other would be collectors' value.
(b) Machinegun. -- The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
NFA rules link: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm
When the law said NO MORE,, they meant no more,, that is why the price is high and will go higher. If it does not have papers NOW,, it will never, ever be legal to own or transfer. Doubt this law changes.
Other freedoms are IN COURT NOW and under attack. Click to read latest report.
No big deal!!! Geez...
Neither the string nor paper clip are prohibited items!!!!
As for as the value of the weapon being based on easy conversion, aint so!
Good examples: Tec9 & Tec22 $300 range, Jennings/Bryco pistols also!!!!
walte
So would it be illegal to own a full-auto conversion kit for a Glock if you didn't own the Glock?
My understanding is that you can own the conversion kit or the glock, but not both at the same time. owning both shows intent and would be considered a crime by ATFE.
MOLON LABE!
An evil tree bears evil fruit. You can destroy as much fruit as you want, but it will always grow back, and it will always be evil.
Tear the tree out of the ground by the roots and burn it. Burn it to ash and grind out the embers with your boot until there's nothing left. Not a single spark. Not a single seed.
I don't feel that Mudge did anything wrong in posting this info. The guy has got to know what he has. I would be willing to bet that the feds knew about it before it got posted here. What is foremost on my mind is I wonder if the ATF knew about it before it was ever listed for sale. Get my drift?
My sentiments exactly...you'd have to be an idiot to buy something like this and request the sear...especially from someone you don't know!
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
The guy admits that he has no Class III FFL. That, to me, is proof that he knows what the law is. I'm not trying to aid the BATFE. I'm trying to prevent one of you people from unknowingly falling in to a tub of s--t.
I'll do it again if I feel the need...Those of you who take offense...
TOUGH NOOGIES.
Mudge the law abiding
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!<BR>
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.
The exception to this is the case of the AR-15 which Kimberkid mentions as the mere posession of M16 fire control components and a semi automatic AR-15 rifle is considered posession of an machinegun. Quite frankly I think it is a total waste of time to go around e-mailing sellers about continuing to call their military style rifles "assault weapons" because the 1994 Crime Bill has expired or because the rifle in question is not selective fire. The term exists and it is not going away now matter how much some individuals dream about changing the term to something like "Homeland Defence Rifles" and since nearly all of these people also hate/fear the Homeland Security Act, this makes no snese anyway. This is no different than JudgeColts enternal struggle to correct folks misuse of the term "grips" for handguns when in fact these are correctly called STOCKS or my own issue of people calling every AR type rifle an AR-15 when in fact ONLY a Colt product can be correctly called and AR-15. The man selling that AK has done nothing wrong Mudge so you can relax. Thanks for the welcome back Kimber, but now I have the flu and am not feeling too well but another shot of NyQuil should correct that!
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian
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... If you don't, you'll find any excuse.
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
Come and Take it
Dont mess with Texas
The man did NOT say anything in the sale ad. The term assult rifle is a generic term. I could see no reason for you to send the email in the first place,, and even less of a reason to post.
Can't imagine why you would ask an obviously known question. Bating a man, then a general post of a private email,,, Not good advertising.
Then again,, maybe this is joke.
Other freedoms are IN COURT NOW and under attack. Click to read latest report.
I must admit I was suprised at the number of people that jumped all over this, but it seems to me that mudge was only trying to do a public service to his friends here on the board. Why are you berrating him over the subject?
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... If you don't, you'll find any excuse.
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
Gotta agree with Kimberkid on this droptop.
JuJu(who hopes people will always question things and iform us of anything that even appears "hinky")
The man said NOTHING about selling a class 3 weapon in the ad. NOTHING about a sear ,,,,,, UNTIL mudge posted a PRIVATE email and linked it to the mans ad.
I may have been mistaken and thought mudge knew something about guns,, especially if he was interested in crafting a question to the seller.
If anything,, a check on the laws,, leaving out the links and asking a question here and then forward the responses or link to the individual selling the gun. The seller was a buyer,, until now. Stated he was selling for money reasons.
Life is tough and many people need our help and not hindrance.
Other freedoms are IN COURT NOW and under attack. Click to read latest report.
I have ads, as published by firearm manufacturers and importers, that date from the pro-gun community that describe the items they are selling as "assault rifles".
The only reason firearm owners are jumping on the term "assault weapon" is because this general term was adopted to describe firearms of certain designs.
It was firearm enthusiasts that originally coined the term "assault weapon". Don't jump on people for using the term now.
I would point out, at this time, there is no legal definition of "assault weapon", at least on the federal level. In certain states, yes, but even that definition will vary between these states.
Stop harrassing people for using the term "assault rifle" or whatever. Don't let "assault weapon" become the "N" word in the firearm community.
I have several assault weapons, and am proud of it. They are not full auto. You may say, hey, those aren't really assault weapons, boeboe, but guess what, that's how many were advertised at the time of the original manufacture and sell.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
~Abraham Lincoln
Your opinion ,, and mine is it was the correct thing to do.
You see it one way and I another, its all an opinion , nobody is "right" and nobody is "wrong".
JuJu(just my opinion)
Nearly 1400 people clicked on his sale and not one bid.
......nearly 1400 clicks on his auction..
What does that say about our country and it's current support for "...shall not be infringed"? [V]
G36
Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT CriminalsThe 2nd Amendment; America's Original Homeland Security
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian