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A WELL REGULATED MILITIA............

GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
edited June 2008 in General Discussion
doesnt mean Un-regulated. It means good viable regulations.

Some people on this site think there should be no GUN LAWS

IMO this is what makes gun owners look like idiots! Well regulated = Well Managed.
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Comments

  • catpealer111catpealer111 Member Posts: 10,695
    edited November -1
    Don't let the feds know that's in there. They'll use it as an open invite to make new gun bans.
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  • Colonel PlinkColonel Plink Member Posts: 16,460
    edited November -1
    I thought that, in the vernacular of Colonial American times, "well-regulated" meant well-armed.

    I wish I could remember where I read that...
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:doesnt mean Un-regulated. It means good viable regulations.
    Would one assume this is a defense of federal rules, regulations and laws concerning weapons ?

    If so...you are wrong.
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  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nothing without regulations will work. Even a well oiled machine, without regulation, will fail. The problem comes with too many safety valves, too much internal too fail. Don
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  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcon12
    Nothing without regulations will work. Even a well oiled machine, without regulation, will fail. The problem comes with too many safety valves, too much internal too fail. Don
    We are getting rid of the valves.
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  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cartod
    doesnt mean Un-regulated. It means good viable regulations.

    Some people on this site think there should be no GUN LAWS

    IMO this is what makes gun owners look like idiots! Well regulated = Well Managed.




    [xx(]
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  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    originally posted by cartod:

    doesnt mean Un-regulated. It means good viable regulations.

    Spoken like a true collectivist. You have no clue what incrementalism is, do you?

    Some people on this site think there should be no GUN LAWS

    Wrong honcho. I do not have to "think" about it. There should be no regulations. Period. It is what I believe, and it is what the founders believed, else they would have included it in the 2nd. "A well-regulated militia" has absolutely nothing to do with government regulating the RTKBA. That is a distortion of the truth.

    IMO this is what makes gun owners look like idiots!

    No, it is simply draws a line of distinction between those of us who value individual liberty and those of us who enjoy begging. It is what seperates the men from the boys the citizens from the subjects.
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  • green milegreen mile Member Posts: 619 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You need to read the whole opinion of the court. In section 8 the Supreme Court said that the right to bear arms applied to wepons not used or designed for use in a military capacity. This means that the .223's, 9MM's, .45's, .50 BMG's etc. can be regulated and restricted as the state and city sees fit since they are and were designed for a military purpose (initially). Also in section 10, the term "bear" means to carry with the intent purpose of a confromtation (i.e., self defense). This also can be restricted and regulated as the state sees fit. So we can own a weapon, but the state can tell you which one and how to own it. This with a possible Democrat President coming in the end of the year could spell big problems for the pro-gun community.
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  • River RatRiver Rat Member Posts: 9,022 ✭
    edited November -1
    Well-regulated means trained, disciplined, familiar with its weapons. Cool under fire. Confident. I believe the intent was for people to have their own arms, to practice with them, and be familiar with them. Or so says I.
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. ... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be possible. -- Hubert H. Humphrey, Senator, Vice President, 22 October 1959

    The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.

    The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. -- George Washington

    Without either the first or second amendment, we would have no liberty; the first allows us to find out what's happening, the second allows us to do something about it! The second will be taken away first, followed by the first and then the rest of our freedoms. -- Andrew Ford
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  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Well Regulated in the 1700s is a term for well supplied/trained. Lets not confuse this issue!!
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  • Colonel PlinkColonel Plink Member Posts: 16,460
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BlueTic
    Well Regulated in the 1700s is a term for well supplied/trained. Lets not confuse this issue!!

    Thanks for the affirmation.

    Maybe they'll listen to you...

    God knows I've tried...
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BlueTic
    Well Regulated in the 1700s is a term for well supplied/trained. Lets not confuse this issue!!
    +1

    ``I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.''
    ``To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.''

    - George Mason
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:Good lord! Talk about a fricken broken record! Give it a rest!

    Jim
    I will give it a rest when anti-gunners (really anti-freedom) like you are beaten back into the closet...where you belong.

    People like the guy that started this thread...people that are comfortable crawling on their bellies begging people like you for permission to exercise the most basic Right of all...the Right of self protection and a shield against tyranny.
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  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    quote:Good lord! Talk about a fricken broken record! Give it a rest!

    Jim
    I will give it a rest when anti-gunners (really anti-freedom) like you are beaten back into the closet...where you belong.

    People like the guy that started this thread...people that are comfortable crawling on their bellies begging people like you for permission to exercise the most basic Right of all...the Right of self protection and a shield against tyranny.

    beaten back? Have you been beaten back? Too much drama save it for your mama.
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  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BlueTic
    Well Regulated in the 1700s is a term for well supplied/trained.


    Hence the term "regular"
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  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by BlueTic
    Well Regulated in the 1700s is a term for well supplied/trained.


    Hence the term "regular"
    So be it. I still say if we fight for NO LAWS....We Loose.
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Cartod;

    But I DEMAND laws..and SWIFT, speedy justice !!

    Laws that actually DO something to fight crime.

    Laws like.." Murder somebody..you SWING !!"

    Commit greivious harm to somebody..you are ececuted...or spend 20 years in a pen like Cummons or Tucker.
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:With that said, would you PLEASE kill someone and soon. I can only read so much of your dribble before I get sick to my stomach.


    My, my, my...such hostility.

    Perhaps if you had spent your LEO career fighting for the Constitution, instead of some perverted, twisted version of it.you would be more understanding about the things I talk about.

    Does the Constitution give the federal government the authority to pass and enforce gun laws ?
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  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    quote:With that said, would you PLEASE kill someone and soon. I can only read so much of your dribble before I get sick to my stomach.


    My, my, my...such hostility.

    Perhaps if you had spent your LEO career fighting for the Constitution, instead of some perverted, twisted version of it.you would be more understanding about the things I talk about.

    Does the Constitution give the federal government the authority to pass and enforce gun laws ?
    Would you rather gun laws be county by county?
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  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    LOL ... some things are just too obvious.

    http://www.awrm.org/
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  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,233 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    A well regulated militia.........I thought everybody knew what that ment.
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  • mrseatlemrseatle Member Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can tell Cartod has never read "The Shotgun News"...
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  • meunkemeunke Member Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, doesn't "well regulated" in the classical sense mean something like "well drilled", "well disciplined", basically "battle ready"?

    I seem to remember something alongthose lines as I was reading about Washington's comments on militia that showed up for service. They were armed, yes, but some with weapons that were not quite up to the standards of the Colonial Army, many of them hadn't kept up with their drilling, didn't bring enough powder and ball, etc.?

    A good history buff wanna help me out here?

    ON EDIT: NM, didn't filly read the thread before posting. That'll teach me! [:I]
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  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by catpealer111
    Don't let the feds know that's in there. They'll use it as an open invite to make new gun bans.


    Is Minot well regulated yet?
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  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am against any laws that deal with the purchase, possession or carrying of firearms, but I am all for laws that punish the criminal misuse of firearms.
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  • mrseatlemrseatle Member Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I say it means that we have the right to keep and bear arms, just in case we need to form a well regulated militia.

    But as others have said...

    These rights come from God anyway so come try and take 'em!
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  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    A well regulated milita has absolutly nothing to do with the individual owership of firearms. This decision was very plan about that. Read the decission. I did.[:0]
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You will fit in really well with the NRA guys. A compromise here a wink there, and pretty soon no guns.

    What part of, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
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  • 1776-19761776-1976 Member Posts: 284 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another liberal . What is always overlooked by the liberals is the TRUE PURPOSE OF THE 2ND. Our founders knew all to well how our freedoms could be taken away if a government was left unchecked. The 2nd was given to the people to protect themselves from an out of control government. The 2nd has NOTHING to do with hunting, target shooting, and anything else our now corrupt liberal government implies. It also has NOTHING do with being a well regulated militia since ANYONE who is able to use arms could fight to preserve our freedoms. Militia also would NOT include ANY state or federal controled force since one or both of them would be the very ones who are takeing our freedoms. If the people still had the freedoms the 2nd gave we would NOT have a need for a government controled military since the people would have provided the defense from enemies FORIEGN and DOMESTIC. Our founders also warned about getting involved in foreign affairs wich our government has also ignored.
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  • ruger41ruger41 Member Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let's get one thing straight--the SECOND the U.S. Government was formed REAL freedom was lost. There is no way one can be free of regulations if there is government involved. One way or another they WILL find a way to be intrusive in your life. The only Americans who really had freedom from Big Government before the POTUS & Congress & SCOTUS were formed were the Indians and I am sure they so dearly loved the freedom they were given in the early days. Granted we are more free than North Korea but because of our population of dolts on the gov't dole who wait for their monthly lottery winnings we have a huge uphill battle to get back the type of freedom we had in the very early days of the Republic.
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  • 1776-19761776-1976 Member Posts: 284 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When our founders created government they ALSO placed limits on their power. Over the years our government has made laws that have taken away our freedoms a little at the time when they were NEVER granted the power to do so. So long as the people do not resist our government will keep takeing our freedoms until we no longer have any freedom left. Our founders knew this would happen and that is why we have a 2nd Amendment. The thing our founders did not know is just how long the people would allow the injustice to continue. To say our founders would be dissapointed in what we have let this country turn into would be a BIG understatement. I only hope people wake up to what is happening before it is to late.
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  • buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    okay, what kind of laws are you talking about?

    the guns themselves?

    no full auto? <--what's wrong with that

    no high capacity? <--what's wrong with that

    no military guns? <--what's wrong with that

    no sbs/sbr? <--what's wrong with that

    the owers?

    no convicted violent felons? ok

    no nutballs? ok

    ...but who else doesn't deserve the right to have a gun???

    why would you delay/restrict/license ownership for normal people? what's the point?


    hhhmmm???

    aint much there for "good viable regulations" is there?
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  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,529 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well the Feds regulated machine guns in 1934. Why? Cause a bunch of idiots were out there shooting up the place. How about the St. Valentines day massacre. How about reckless bank robbers like John Dillenger? Well the govt. put hits on these people and cleaned up the stituation and decided the weapons they used would NOT be illegal but registered so they knew who had them. Sound realistic? WE didn't lose the weapons. Now get ready ... it could happen to black rifles. Would you pay $200 bucks apiece to keep your black guns? Don't * and moan.. they are not taking them away. I can't help some morons have abused use of these guns. Don't be surprised someday everygun in your household will be accounted for or a registration fee be imposed.
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  • ruger41ruger41 Member Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When it comes to full auto guns I have no problem with them so long as the person who owns it is a responsible person. I compare owning a black rifle to owning a Corvette --reason being, a Corvette can do wayyy more than the legal speed limit, the shell body is made of a material called fiberglass which makes it lighter but not as strong as sheet metal that regular cars are made of so it explodes when it gets in a wreck, it costs a lot of money to buy and of course it sucks up tons of fuel. But so long as a person is responsible with it there should be no reason why he/she cannot own either. Corvettes & AR-15's have the same enemies--idiots who love to discriminate on the basis of looks--I know that sounds odd, but there are tons of liberals who discriminate against these things solely on the basis that they look evil, yet they never seem to be able to see the person who is the user of said item. Now if you are out misusing the item then you should be held accountable and if people get hurt then you should lose the right to own it. I gurantee if the anti's get a total ban on military style rifles they WILL go after lever guns-then pumps then bolts and on and on.[;)]
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  • sharpshooter039sharpshooter039 Member Posts: 5,897 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well I have to agree with Cartod,you have to have some GUN LAWS,Example would be you cant have a 12 yr old boy in the getto selling enough crack to go to the local gun store and buy a new Glock to carry to school.you cant have a convicted Rapist sawing the barrel off a 870 and carrying it under his coat down the street looking for his next new victim.Yes gun laws are restrictive but some are neccessary,even in the old west there were gun laws,you did not carry in Wyatt Earps town,[;)].If everybody in the world was good hearted you still would have to worry about the Mental cases,there has to be rules in any society or it is destined to fail
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Endless Socialist drivel...how well the propaganda has worked to diminish the independence of most of Americas' people.

    Let us NOT punish the guilty.ohno.let us enact draconian regulations on the people that WILL obey the law.

    I can understand the gleeful orgasims of those who Seek power over EVERYTHING.

    What I CANNOT understand is the staggering number of people EAGER to get on their knees and service the government.

    Shame is absolutely no part of their lives..and swallowing is what they do best.

    The next time you beg daddy for permission to buy a gun.PLEASE have a little decency. Have the decency to feel just the slightest flicker of scalding shame for pissing on a Founder.
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  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Endless Socialist drivel...how well the propaganda has worked to diminish the independence of most of Americas' people.

    Let us NOT punish the guilty.ohno.let us enact draconian regulations on the people that WILL obey the law.

    I can understand the gleeful orgasims of those who Seek power over EVERYTHING.

    What I CANNOT understand is the staggering number of people EAGER to get on their knees and service the government.

    Shame is absolutely no part of their lives..and swallowing is what they do best.

    The next time you beg daddy for permission to buy a gun.PLEASE have a little decency. Have the decency to feel just the slightest flicker of scalding shame for pissing on a Founder.

    Quite the disturbing analogy.
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MT357
    A well regulated militia.........I thought everybody knew what that ment.
    I get lots of fiber in my diet so I am very regulated!!!!!!!

    Does that count???????[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
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  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Cartod;
    I understand ..believe me...I do.

    I use words as a bludgeon, today...after a lifetime of attempting to persuade people that their form of government is being usurped by madmen.men intent upon destroying EVERYTHING you and other decent people hold dear.

    I have little time left on this earth.but the grievous harm that has been done to freedom by these men MUST be faced by the American people.

    I have no time nor patience any more for `sweet reason' ..brutal frankness is all that is left in my quiver as of now.

    I begged my daddy for a gun when I was nine.

    A brother-in-law loaned me a single shot .22 at ten.

    At eleven.or twelve, I cannot remember ..I went and bought a 303 British ..and shot a deer on the way home with it. I didn't ask my daddy.I just went and bought it.

    Then, one day ..I was forty years old.and suddenly understood that once again I was begging daddy for a gun.

    What washed over me that day was hot, scalding SHAME..that we call ourselves `men'..yet some slimy, pisant sitting in some office somewhere can DENY ME A WEAPON.ON A WHIM !!!
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